Need help with my PC

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

I'm sorry people, but I just can't let that go by without a warning.

 

Greywolf2001ca, even though more & more I'm suspecting you're doing nothing but trolling, I can't let you go there unadvised. Stay away from the link that Hal posted. Really. That advice is for your own good.

 

 

 

 

 

(Or will this warning end up being of the "don't shove a bean up your nose" variety?)

 

Now I know where to borrow text if I ever want to create a sanity destryoing Eldrich tome of forbidden lore.

 

I think the author is channeling Xist transmissions.

Thankfully I have developed enough Slack to be able to resist the mind crumbling effects.

 

Tho it's a close thing

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Now I know where to borrow text if I ever want to create a sanity destryoing Eldrich tome of forbidden lore.

 

I think the author is channeling Xist transmissions.

Thankfully I have developed enough Slack to be able to resist the mind crumbling effects.

 

Tho it's a close thing

may Bob Dobs save us all from messes such as that.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Based on your posts, here is a game system that you may find more suitable:

http://philippe.tromeur.free.fr/hybrid.htm

 

Oh, good grief, he put that on the web? Where anyone can see it? I had hoped that when C++ stopped posting that drivel to rec.games.frp.superheroes that it would be lost to the world forever.

[Hal Owen]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

I'm sorry people, but I just can't let that go by without a warning.

 

Greywolf2001ca, even though more & more I'm suspecting you're doing nothing but trolling, I can't let you go there unadvised. Stay away from the link that Hal posted. Really. That advice is for your own good.

 

(Or will this warning end up being of the "don't shove a bean up your nose" variety?)

 

Dr. A,

I actually meant it as something of a compliment.

I may be recommending his own system to him.

 

Either that or this is just Mightbec or RFK's latest romp.

 

However, if Greywolf2001ca is entirely serious in his questions, comments, and responses, the link I provided may very well be exactly what he is looking for.

 

It is a unique game system for those who prefer things that aren't so "abstract".

 

After all, most of the values, at least as far as I can remember, are derived from other in-game values, and/or real-world data.

 

Hal Owen.

[McCoy]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Thanks for the clarifications on the increases fo the defence, could make some sense, and fortunate that you have some rules that reduce your DCV when faced against multiple opponents at the same time.

 

My power defense is only active when she changes into he heroic form, to change into her heroic form, she absolutely needs her staff, so at some point, the staff would reduce the power but not as much as the powers on the staff itself which of course requires that I wield the staff all the time to use them. So that is how its suppose to work for that power. Pretty much like a spell component that never disappears, you need it to use the spell but you don't need it to maintain it.

Just as I'm leaning toward the sock puppet hypothesis he post this. Maintain grammar and tone at this level and people will be more than happy to help you.

 

In my opinion, this calls for a power that no longer exist in 5th edition, Instant Change. The classic Instant Change is when Billy Batson says the word and becomes Captain Marvel. This is Instant Change with the Invocation limitation. None of the Captain's powers except calling the lightning required Invocation, but he could not use any of the powers until he changed.

 

With GM approval Instant Change can still be bought as a custom 10 point power, with the staff as an Inobious Accessable Focus that comes down to 7 real points.

 

The "book legal" construction is Major Transform 7d6 (standard effect: 21 points), heroic self into superheroic self, healed back by being seperated from staff for 24 hour or by second application of power, 0 END (157 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2), IAF (-1/2). Real cost:63 points. Here we see the value of GM input during the character design.

 

In either event, any ability that can be used only in superheroic form then gets the Only In Hero ID (OIHID) limitation (-1/4). Any ability that can be used in heroic or superheroic form does not take the limitation. Finally, attacks that require she be in superheroic form and have the staff still has to abide by the OIHID restriction, but gets no point break for that, geting the Obvious Accessable Focus (OAF) (-1) instead.

 

Again, if the staff is a focus, even if just for the instant change, expect it to be taken away at least once during the course of the campagine. If it is the focus for your major attack or defense, I would try to take it away every 3 to 6 adventures. The fact that you will not have the power sometimes is why you get the price break.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Greywolf2001ca,

 

It seems as if you do not really find some of the basic concepts of the Hero System to your liking.

Based on your posts, here is a game system that you may find more suitable:

http://philippe.tromeur.free.fr/hybrid.htm

It is quite good at handling things in a more detailed way than Hero, and you may find the author's style more engaging as well.

 

Damn!

 

Is that thing _still_ around?

 

Oh, and Hal--

 

you're a sick monkey, Dude.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

No hard feelings.

 

Thank you muchly, Kind Lady. This thread could use a bit of graciousness

 

I understand there's been a lot of skimming in this thread.

 

That's a rather kind word for it, I think.

[Greywolf2001ca]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Thanks Hugh and McCoy for clarifying things up, I think it's good now, I'll fix the things up and it should be according to the rules now. Thanks to everyone who helped.

[Hal Owen]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

And to think that I always believed there would never be a practical use for the "you know what" system.

 

Look how quickly it took care of this thread.

 

 

Hal Owen

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Yes, and that is what falls under "being approved by the GM".

 

Don't let the troll push you into defending a silly position: you know that being "book legal" and being "GM approved" are different things. We've all created legal characters that weren't appropriate for a given game, and I'm sure most of us have created "illegal" character that were approved. It's quite possible to be one without being the other.

While we have all created characters that wouldn't be game related, this is completely irrelevant to the discussion on hand. Alice was trying to address the fact greywolf was talking about regarding a character being legal prior to GM approval. Alice may not know all of the rules perfectly, but one of the ones she knows well is this rule. And she quoted exactly the section in question to show where she was getting her position from. I don't think it would have happened if greywolf wasn't being so short and "sheeshing" her.

 

The book clearly states that powers can be interpreted in ways that may not be ways acceptable to a GM. For a power to be book legal, it requires to be GM approved. There is a big difference between getting opinions on whether other posters would approve of a power and asking for book legal powers.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

I don't think it would have happened if greywolf wasn't being so short and "sheeshing" her.

 

That's what I think, too.

 

For a power to be book legal' date=' it requires to be GM approved.[/quote']

 

No, they are two different things: the passage Alice quoted (2 and 3 both, actually) makes that explicitly clear.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

The book clearly states that powers can be interpreted in ways that may not be ways acceptable to a GM. For a power to be book legal' date=' it requires to be GM approved. There is a big difference between getting opinions on whether other posters would approve of a power and asking for book legal powers.[/quote']

 

I think this can be interpreted in two ways. One, as you say, is "it's only book legal if the GM allows it". Another is that this is a two stage process, being:

 

1. "Is it book legal?" It is book legal if it does not violate any of the rules in the rule book. I would add that it is not book legal if the ability in question requires GM permission (eg. a special power in a framework; a 0 END power in an elemental control), or is noted as something that GM's should scrutinize carefully (eg. a special effect for an EC; whether a given ability is "common" enough to be the weakness of your Desolidification or the defense for your NND)

 

2. Does the GM approve it? This overrides #1. The GM may, for example, deny you a 20d6 0 END Energy Blast, despite its being perfectly book legal. On the other hand, he may allow you to have a multipower of naked advantages.

 

A poster could post a construct, or a character, which we all agree is book legal (meets #1) and that we would never accept in our game (fails #2).

 

Book/Rules Legal

 

Our views are probably relevant in respect of #1 - we can cite chapter and verse to prove that a given construct is, is not, "book legal". We can even ask Steve on the Rules Question board.

 

For example, I can build a 1 point RKA, 10 shot autofire (+2? doubled for being Accurate - adjust # of shots if my advantage is wrong), 1 hex accurate (+1/2), quadruple Penetrating (+2), 0 END (+1 because it's autofire), Range line of sight. Cost - 37 points. I'll buy +15 OCV with it (30 points). Does it inflict 1 BOD per hit unless the opponent has qunituple hardened defenses? By the Book (and by Steve's ruling related to 1 point penetrating KA's), yes, this is Rules Legal. Do I have an OCV of 27 between my 35 DEX and those levels? Again, yes. Will I hit a typical target 10 times on most occasions? Again, yes (I need to roll a 16+, I believe, to miss with one of my 10 shots). So this power will generally inflict 10 BOD on its target each time.

 

[Please hold your comments until the end of the presentation, we're getting to the issue you're thinking shortly.]

 

GM Approval

 

Our opinions mean far less here. What works in your game may not work in mine, and vice versa. The only relevance "book legal" has here is that the book makes it very clear the GM overrides the rules.

 

In some cases, most or all GM's will agree on whether something is "game legal", especially if they understand the game parameters (eg. "Sure, a 20d6 0 END EB is legal" quicky becomes "The DC cap is 12d6 and the AP cap is 75 points - rewrite it!").

 

This is where my power, above, will fail the acid test. "No, your character cannot have an attack which will inflict 10 BOD per hit on any target. Get out before I throw you out!" seems a reasonably restrained response to my "book legal" power.

 

And you can bet the Rules Question Board will see Steve caution that such a power may well be unacceptable in many/most games. But the flexibility of Hero permits it so he will not say "that is illegal".

 

Overall

 

So I agree there is "book legal" separate from "GM Approved". However, a book legal character who will never be GM approved is solely an intellectual exercise. As a GM, I would veto some perfectly legal constructs, and allow some the Book says are not legal. Building a character without GM input is not, in my view, a good aproach as a player.

 

And, ewhile I can post on these boards, "I think your GM is a fool for alowing (or not alowing) that construct/character", it is still that GM's right to do so (and he may have very good, campaign-specific reasons for doing so, making me more the fool than that GM).

[Hal Owen]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Being serious for a moment . . .

 

I think that there is a factor in the "book legal" vs. "GM allowed" debate that has not been given the attention it deserves.

 

(Insert quote about power and responsibility here)

 

I have no idea how aware of Hero the general RPG populace is.

 

I also have no idea how aware those who know about Hero are of this message board.

 

However, since The Hero System can be quite complex, and it would be normal for new GM's and players to seek out some information online, there may be more people looking here than we think.

 

Based on that, bringing up the concept that the GM defines what is legal for his campaign in nearly every thread that concerns the legality of a construct is quite proper.

 

I understand that there is a such a thing as "book legal", and that you can have a perfectly valid discussion of what is and is not.

 

But, I would be horrified to think that the one time someone asked about some disgusting piece of munchkinism that they were trying to get past their fledgling GM, someone would reply with a simple "It is book legal."

 

Just because, that post would probably be printed off and nailed to their GM's door like Martin Luther's Ninety-Five Theses.

 

After all, the greatest thing a munchkin can ever find is something "official" saying that what he wants to do is okay.

 

I am not saying that every response on the boards concerning rules should have some sort of mandatory warning label on it.

 

I am just saying that there is nothing wrong with someone bringing up the GM approval topic.

 

Other than Steve's posts and the faq's, the posts here could hardly be considered any sort of 'official' interpretation of the Hero system.

 

But that doesn't mean that someone could try to use them that way, if they helped to prove their point.

 

So, while I am not trying to suggest that we should in any way edit ourselves or not discuss weird, wild, or barely-legal builds here (why does that sound like something concerning porn?), I am just saying that anyone who feels like it has the right to interject the "Only if your GM allows it." warning.

 

That way, if for some perverse reason the only thread on this board that a newbie GM looked at happened to be the one his player started, he would have a reminder to say:

"Wait a minute! I don't have to let you do it this way. Let's try to come up with something a little more balanced."

 

 

Okay, that's it, back to teasing people.

 

 

Hey Rage, your shoe's untied!

 

 

 

 

 

Made you look!

 

 

Hal Owen.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Hugh and Hal:

 

I agree with pretty much all of that. And I do see where where AliceTheOwl is coming from. I think the vector between her perspective and mine is probably little more than a semantic difference. I am sure that we agree in the ways that really matter.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

"I don't want my DM's opinion NOW' date=' that will be [i']LATER[/i], all I want is to see if my character is okay according to the rules in the BOOK. And common sense also "

Phil, The Prince of Insufficient Light, says you are going to gamer--and poster--Heck!

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Hugh and Hal:

 

I agree with pretty much all of that. And I do see where where AliceTheOwl is coming from. I think the vector between her perspective and mine is probably little more than a semantic difference. I am sure that we agree in the ways that really matter.

Oh, I'm sure. ^ v ^

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Phil, The Prince of Insufficient Light, says you are going to gamer--and poster--Heck!

"RPGs got a lotta Hecks."

[archermoo]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Phil, The Prince of Insufficient Light, says you are going to gamer--and poster--Heck!

 

Ooo, he's gonna get spooned by Phil...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

Greywolf2001ca,

 

It seems as if you do not really find some of the basic concepts of the Hero System to your liking.

Based on your posts, here is a game system that you may find more suitable:

http://philippe.tromeur.free.fr/hybrid.htm

It is quite good at handling things in a more detailed way than Hero, and you may find the author's style more engaging as well.

Gotta have respect for a system in which rule #1 (appearing about 8/10 of the way down the publication) is:

RULE # 1: In the short term, binary logic < order > [soul equation] is far superior (?) than fuzzy logic < chaos > [cloning equation]. Most of the universe seems to be working in or using binary logic, with a constant state of war being waged against fuzzy logic by binary logic & vice versa. A perfect example might be Iraq-Iran-N.K. paradigm. You don’t have to look too far for examples. Look @ RULE # 34, # 78, # 80, & # 83.

Is that where we are supposed to start? End? Pull our hair out in an attempt to put together a dependency diagram? Nod our heads at the wisdom of a game with nonsensical opinions at its heart? Burrito?

 

 

Whoever wrote that had way, WAY, WAY too much time on their hands!

[Sean Waters]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

skim....skim....skim....

 

 

Book legal:

12d6 EB (60 points) at 0 END (+1/2) total cost 90 points

 

"There you go, just like it says in the book"

 

GM approved:

18d6 EB (20 points), AP, NND, Does Body and 0 END (you can have that for free)

 

"Is that about what you're looking for? Really nice gun, by the way...."

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

what about THIS gem, right there at the beginning...

(bolding mine)

Rule # 550: There are 5 parts to this rule. Based on my Rule # 3 & Rule # 6, this: {(0,0) END} is a human, usually a male human, at least in this rpg HYBRID, since women are too complicated to make in my rpg, since creating women in my rpg requires politically incorrect math,

 

and of course, EVERY set of RPG rules needs something like THIS....

But, the USA government don’t care about your tax $, because its FREE $ to them, the corrupt politicians, who can’t believe that its citizens could be so gullible to believe outright lies as truth, but unfortunately most USA citizens are gullible, and now Americans are brainwashed to into thinking & believing that a man raping his wife or/& girlfriend is raping her which not true, as there is NO difference between a girlfriend & a wife, except for a piece of paper saying otherwise, so there is no rape if a man rapes his girlfriend, since before feminism, men were allowed to rape his wife, since most women are frigid or have mood swings, as long as she is his girlfriend during the time that he rape his woman, the same if she his wife, since the only difference between a girlfriend & a wife, is a piece of paper, a marriage license, which is consent by woman to allow her husband to rape her, which feminism don’t’ recognize anymore, so then there is no marriage, if there is no consent to rape one’s wife, then there is no difference between a girlfriend & a wife, so then marriage does not exist any longer, and if marriage does not exist, then what is the point of getting married, oh, the woman say to prove that you love me, but it is now excuse to collect alimony & child support, latter is also alimony or payment for sex which is prostitution which illegal in USA, and most men are NOT looking to marry a prostitute when HE/THEY get married.

And yeah, that is supposedly ONE sentence

 

Don't get me started on the Rule to determine the cost to be Polygamous based on the Com value of your wives

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

An incomprehensible misogynist. What a catch.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

An incomprehensible misogynist. What a catch.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AliceTheOwl again.

 

Apparently the 0th Rule of his game is "I hate women."

 

image that extrapolated out to a 300-400 word sentence for continuity purposes.

 

Rule # 550: There are 5 parts to this rule. Based on my Rule # 3 & Rule # 6, this: {(0,0) END} is a human, usually a male human, at least in this rpg HYBRID, since women are too complicated to make in my rpg, since creating women in my rpg requires politically incorrect math,

what is poltically incorrect math?

(2 + "Get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich") * (3 - "should never have freed the slaves") = "I club baby seals as a hobby" ??

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Need help with my PC

 

More and more, I think I'm coming around to the conclusion that what's written as his "RPG" is actually a game of Nomic.