Possession Skills

[Templar Jakob]

I'm somewhat new to the Hero System. Been playing for about 3 years and only running a campaigns for about 1 or so. So far the one thing i have had the most trouble with is any type of possession skill. Demon possession and the like. Is there a way to do it without having the cost of it be obnoxiously high?

Any help is appreciated.

[Captain Obvious]

Probably the cheapest way to do something like this would be to buy Extradimensional Movement Usable on Others (to send them far far away) and a linked Shapeshift Only to Replicate the Character Sent Far Far Away. Still not too cheap, but possessing someone is a pretty powerful ability.

 

Of course, you could just heap limitations on a regular old Mind Control and bring the cost down, and perhaps even get something more in line with a traditional possession. Maybe now that the subject is opened up, more people will throw in their ideas....

[Lord Liaden]

Part of the problem with the Mind Control approach is that it doesn't readily allow for many of the things depicted for certain types of possessions: accessing the victim's memories, seeing through his eyes, using his skills as if they were your own, etc.

 

The most elegant way I've yet seen to work this is to base the effect on a Mental Transform: Target to Target With Possessor's Mind. You don't necessarily need a lot of Active Points in Transform if you hit your victim with it repeatedly until it takes effect. Then it's a matter of defining how much of the victim's memories and abilities the demon will have access to, as well as how to exorcise it (break the Transform).

 

Assuming you want a demon that actually enters the victim's body/mind/spirit when it possesses him, you'd need a way to get the demon's original body out of the way. Again, the most elegant concept I've seen is to use Extra-Dimensional Movement to one dimension: Possessed Victim's Mind. Perhaps add a Mind Link to mechanically make the minds of the demon and its victim function as one.

 

There would of course be fine-tuning required depending on exactly how you want the effect to work, but you can always ask further questions if you want input on that. As a starting point, though, I believe this to be the simplest and cheapest way to go.

[Templar Jakob]

Well I thank you for the advice, but I’m a little unsure of something with the ED movement. Buying it so a demon could teleport into somebody’s mind would mean that the demons physical body appears inside the targets skull. Making the target dead. At least that is my understanding of how it would work. however, i may have missed how the power worked under that circumstance?

From what I was looking at would this make sense?

Buying a power with Desolidify (affects real world). This would be the effect of a spirit entering a person, High amount of Mind control (say something like 6d6), and a decent telepathy skill (like maybe 4d6)

That was the basis I was using to create it, but the cost is ridiculous; both real and active. Am I far off on these skills to achieve what I was looking for? I don’t want to heap a ton of Lims on a power just to cheapen the cost.

[Lord Liaden]

Desolid and Mind Control are definitely a traditional combination for running this kind of effect, just as you describe. The amount of Mind Control you're suggesting would result in little real control over the average person, though; 6D6 would barely roll more effect than +10 over the victim's EGO on average, enough to get them to do what they wouldn't mind doing on their own. Of course, if you want the demon to suggest and persuade rather than command then that's just fine, but for strong and lasting control I'd say you're looking at 10D6 as a bare minimum just against a person with a normal EGO range of 8-10.

 

I understand your confusion about the E-D movement. It doesn't represent a physical movement by the demon into a person's head, but into his "mind." Perhaps you've seen or read books, movies or comics where a character assumes some "astral" or "spiritual" state through magic or machine, enabling him to enter a person's thoughts or dreams? That's what the EDM mechanic would represent in this case, a transition to a state that would allow the demon to enter and possess its victim. You could indeed represent this as Desolid, but Desolid requires constant END use to maintain unless it's bought down to 0 END, whereas EDM is a one-shot END expenditure. Your Desolid demon would in theory be affected by any Affects Desolid attack fired at the person possessed, which would be good or bad depending on whether you wanted that effect.

 

Ultimately, whatever seems logical or feels right to you is what you should go with; but you seemed to want cheap and straightforward, so I just offered what I thought would suit that best. Certainly YMMV.

[Markdoc]

Traditionally the sorts of things that do possession live "somewhere else" - beyond the veil, in Hell, the Land of the Dead, whatever.

 

For these creatures, I handle possession as a big-ass Telepathy, with the telepathic advantage and transdimensional, plus an associated mindlink (also across dimensions).

 

The way it works is. the possessor possesses the target - once mind-controlled, the command is generally "Obey me!". Then "Accept this mindlink".

 

At that point the possessor can talk with the possessee, gain information about his memories by asking, or get him to do things. The posessed person still has all their normal skills, so there is no problem there. And there is no problem about the possessor's body: it is still where it was - Somewhere else.

 

Yes, it is expensive, although you can drop the cost by giving it the limitation Concentration 0 DCV, meaning the possessor's body is lying around somewhere helpless (this is appropriate for Shaman types or evil mages whose bodies lie around guarded by their familiars while the possessed prince tries to kill the king and abduct the princess, or whatever). They don't even need the Transdimensional bit.

 

But expensive is GOOD! It doesn't matter for NPCs who you can make cost anything you like. But a PC with this power is just plain nasty. I *know* because I had a PC with this power (Character sheet at: http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/character_archive/facelessone.html)

 

It essentially lets you take over someone else's character, or a suitable NPC. In the Faceless one's case, she tended to seduce a suitably morally deficient and hunky male, persuade him to ACCEPT the mind control (thus not much chance of failing), so he can instantly learn L33T ninja skills. That's why her skills are bought as usable by one other.

Bingo, disposable L33T ninja. If he gets killed, well, she can relax, have a drink and find another stooge.

 

That's not a power I would be happy with a PC having in my FH game! Though I have used it to generate a reusable villian for FH

 

"Lord Mortus? Didn't we kill him already?"

"Sure we did. Why do you think he's so mad at us?"

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Pedantic and Technical

 

First, in response to the person who said something about "if you want your demon to cajole and persuade..."

 

Technically, "possession" is when an entity fully "inhabits" a body and has total control of its actions, if not necessarily of that person's memories and skills. When an "outside" entity has a more limited control, either of the "persuading and cajoling" type or the exertion of a subtle influence that the semicontrolled person is not aware of, that is technically "obsession." Demonic obsession can be very insidious, of course. The effects of the Ring on its Bearers in Lord of the Rings would be a good example of obsession.

 

How you do either in the game depends on how you want them to work, but I have some questions - first, WHY do you want a powerful ability to be CHEAP?

 

Mind Control is the simplest, and Mental Transform probably the cheapest, way to get what you seem to want. If your vision includes "character confronts demon, demon vanishes into character and possesses him" then the disappearance of the physical body of the possessing entity is a Side Effect of the power (yes, a limitation, NOT a stacked power like Extradimensional Move or Desolid. Think about it. Am I better off controlling a person's actions, skills, etc - or controlling everything that person does or can do, and MYSELF TOO?)

 

Now, I could be totally wrong on that last interpretation; it's just how I see it after a little thought, and I could be talked out of that position.

 

Another possibility - Mr. Long has ruled that if a character's BODy is fully Suppressed, that character is dead - temporarily, until the Supression is lifted. Try BODy Suppression, and then animate the body with STR and Running, Usable Against Others, and Images (to have a voice, and to make the "corpse" "look alive.") all limited, only against a supressed body. Getting rid of your own body is, again, either Side Effects of some kind, or a stacked power, probably Extradimensional Move, depending on whether you think it is an advantage or a disadvantage.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if I could be obsessed by the Hero System.....

[Templar Jakob]

Well, i never thought of working it as a body suppression, thanks for the imput. I wasnt looking to make it a "cheap" power, just to lessen the cost a bit. I know its kind of "power-gamer" of me but i was looking to get the most out of spending the least. I like some of the ideas that you guys have thrown out. Thank you so far.