Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

[OddHat]

I've been thinking about allowing a brick with Megacale Knockback and Throwing in my CU games, to simulate that "knocked through several buildings" Silver Age feel. I'd set the Megascale to 1"=10". On the other hand, I don't want to kill PCs with 10x normal knockback damage, and I don't want to rule that Megascale KB does no more damage than Standard KB. So, I've been thinking about the Casual STR rules. Maybe, if the person knocke back does 2x the total DEF+BODY of the target, they take no damage?

 

So, Joe Hero is knocked back 120" by Omega Maid. He's doing 120d6 of damage to everything in his path. Convcrete and steel are a fog to him, and so at the end of his flight he hits the ground but takes no damage.

 

Alternatively, what about a variation on the Move By rules? Maybe he only takes 1/2 damage from each object he smashes through.

 

So, Joe Hero goes through four 6 Def 6 Body walls, and eight 4 Def 4 Body walls. Joe takes four 6d6 and eight 4d6 attacks, maybe enough to sting, but not enough to kill hm just from the KB.

 

Thoughts?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Well, two thoughts (neither of which I expect you'll like... )

1. I wouldn't allow a MegaScale effect set to anything nearly as small as 1"=10". I think that's way too close to personal scale, and doesn't bring with it enough of the inherent drawbacks of MegaScale.
2. I would rule that MegaScaled Knockback does no more damage than standard Knockback. Sure, it's illogical. But it's no more illogical than the idea of throwing an unprotected human a mile or two in the span of a second, and not having the flesh stripped from their bones by the atmospheric friction. And it's a lot more balanced in play than allowing Omega Maid to cause 120d6 in Knockback damage because she paid a +1/4 Advantage on her STR...

Of course, YMMV. But there's my .02.

[pendelfield]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

I would have to agree, megascale would be awfully powerful for knockback. But like you said if you allow it, the damage equal to the defense of the object struck would be a good way to go, and maybe reducing the distance of the knockback by an equal amount for each object struck. (attack does lets say 80" knockback, hits wall with a defence of 10 at 30" out, takes 10d6 damage and knockback loses 10 off of distance. Leaving another 40" to go.) might work.

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

In my games, I generally have have a house rule where knockback starts as a x10, and multiple levels increase from there.

1: 10" vs 500"

2: 100" vs 5000"

3: 2km vs 100km

Yes, it means they have to buy more levels than normal to get a certain distance, but a jump of x500 for only a +1/4 seems unbalancing in most of my games.

 

In any case, megascale KB - would definitely NOT allow it to do mega-damage (Palladium disclaimer here) as stated, it would do an unfair amount of damage for very little cost. One option to consider is the 'free flight' concept- it does megascale KB only as long as there isn't anything to block the path... if at 3km there is a big wall- the character stops at the big wall...

Even better- state that Megascale KB only applies until the first obstruction, then reduce it to normal scale KB. (or at least by one level of MS)

 

Also- I would suggest that megascale cost end, or some other limitation that discouraged it from being casually used with every single HTH attack the brick used.

[BlackSword]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

In keeping with the 'in-genre' fell, would there be the possibility of a Hero (or, perish the thought, villain) with Flight Power able to make a breakfall or acrobatics type roll to turn the megascale knockback in a flight path. Or even make a mega-scale knockback take extra phases (though that might put too much of a burden on knockee as they will also require extra time to make movement back to the battlefield).

 

Its an interesting thought and definitaly adds to the epic superhero flavor, but all of the heroes would have to have impressive movement abilities in able to move around a much larger battlefield.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Thanks for the feedback so far. Still thinking it over.

 

I think the reason that the 120d6 KB damage isn't bothering me is that the target would need to hit a 60 Body 60 Def obtruction for it to happen, and that's not something I expect to see. If he did hit the ground using thi optional approach, he'd end up at the bottom of a crater, with each hex of dirt he goes through only doing a max of 4d6 of damage (and with the KB damage halved as per normal rules for downward KB). Knocking Target A into Target B becomes trickier; there would be the potential for a disproportionate damage increase for only +1/4 there.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

I think that there are going to be an awful lot of dead civilians about, if you impliment these rules:eek: .

 

The main objection to your fix I have is this: if the character gets megascale KB'd through six buildings they take no damage, if they get normal KB'd through one wall they do?

 

And what happens when they hit the ground: 60d6 damage (120 halved) is not going to be enough to destroy the planet, so they will have to take that much.

 

Mind you the other thing you need to think about is this: I mucked about with increased KB for cinematic effect and found a problem - to use your example - 120" KB means 4 phases to get back to the action at a 30" combat move. All that running back and forth gets boring.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

I think that there are going to be an awful lot of dead civilians about' date=' if you impliment these rules:eek: .[/quote']

 

There are an awful lot of dead civilians about no matter what if you have a fight in a realistically crowded city setting.

 

The main objection to your fix I have is this: if the character gets megascale KB'd through six buildings they take no damage, if they get normal KB'd through one wall they do?

 

If the wall stops them, they take full damage. If they blow through, they take 1/2 the Def+Body of the wall. It would be the same for both standard and modified KB.

 

And what happens when they hit the ground: 60d6 damage (120 halved) is not going to be enough to destroy the planet, so they will have to take that much.

 

I was thinking about that. I might work out some sort of crater rules. Maybe 4d6 per hex of earth they go through, each hex subtracting 4" of the remaining KB?

 

Mind you the other thing you need to think about is this: I mucked about with increased KB for cinematic effect and found a problem - to use your example - 120" KB means 4 phases to get back to the action at a 30" combat move. All that running back and forth gets boring.

 

The running back and forth part of the fun.

[The Souljourner]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Just give them double knockback for +1/4 (there was a thread where we did some math, and that seemed to be what it was really worth). People still go flying back pretty far, just not six buildings far.

[Mister E]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

I like the idea of Megascale Knockback, but not so much the idea of it delivering Megascale Damage.

 

I think it's possible that what we need to do, is come up with another type of campaign (beyond Heroic and Superheroic) that simulates the feats/adventures of truly titanic characters (like Superman, or the Hulk). In such a titanic campaign, Megascaled Knockback could be the rule.

 

Barring that, I would purhaps make it manditory that titanic characters buy a Megascale Knockback advantage for their titanic-class STR and Powers.

 

 

~ Mister E

[ghost-angel]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Galatic Champions perhaps?

[Mister E]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Galatic Champions perhaps?

Totally. Do they have special rules like this, in GC?

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Totally. Do they have special rules like this' date=' in GC?[/quote']

 

No, but the above are proposed variations on ideas presented in the Ultimate Brick.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Totally. Do they have special rules like this' date=' in GC?[/quote']

As Oddhat said, no. But it is the appropriate genre to introduce concepts like this - especially if you want battles at a System Scale or so, getting knocked back to the third planet from the second .. etc...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

The other consequence of this kind of mega damage is that physical obstacles become less of a problem: I may not be strong enough to punch a hole in the tank, but by golly I can knock Grond back THROUGH the tank. Also seriously undermines the utility of force walls and entangles, and it is only a matter of time before PCs start AIMING their knockback at other opponents as the most efficient way to do massive damage.

 

Killjoy, aren't I?

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

The other consequence of this kind of mega damage is that physical obstacles become less of a problem: I may not be strong enough to punch a hole in the tank' date=' but by golly I can knock Grond back THROUGH the tank. Also seriously undermines the utility of force walls and entangles, and it is only a matter of time before PCs start AIMING their knockback at other opponents as the most efficient way to do massive damage.[/quote']

 

I'm not concerned with what player will do as such; this is for an NPC. I'm also not concerned about Tanks; in the high powered Supers genre, they should be easy to smash. Force Walls and Entangles might be a problem; they would become less useful.

 

Killjoy, aren't I?

 

Well, you are English.

[Mister E]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Pip pip.

[Black Rose]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

For a somewhat... different... POV, how would you simulate the comedy anime effect of a girl punching or malleting a guy into LEO? It never kills the victim, and really only seems to serve as a way to put them out of commission or make them go away for a period of time (usually hours, but sometimes only minutes).

 

I had thought of a Double Knockback attack with Megascale on the Knockback to simulate launching them into the sky. I figured on only using the actual KB dice rolled to determine damage, not total distance traveled. The latter would turn what is supposed to be a funny schtick into the Fine!Red!Mist!-o'-matic, and that's not what I'm looking for.

[Phil]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Incredibly illogical, but I'd apply knockback as normal - 1d6 per 1". So, whether that 1" is 2m or 20km, you get the flat damage. You want to do more damage, you buy extra KB like other people or you have a linked attack. That'll teach people to buy silly powers....

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Quite right too, Phil - bah, humbug.

 

I have to say I'm not really keen on BUILDING a villain-only power. If I want a villain who can basically get rid of PCs for an extended period, and I don't want the players to have the ability, I don't see much point in statting it out unless you are worried about it being drained - it is a plot device, plain and simple.

 

Right I'm off to be even more British!

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Quite right too, Phil - bah, humbug.

 

I have to say I'm not really keen on BUILDING a villain-only power. If I want a villain who can basically get rid of PCs for an extended period, and I don't want the players to have the ability, I don't see much point in statting it out unless you are worried about it being drained - it is a plot device, plain and simple.

 

Fair enough. For myself, I'd like to see how it works. After all, it's always possible I'l run a campaigh high powered enough to let the players have it as well.

 

Right I'm off to be even more British!

 

You're going to watch Big Brother?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

You're going to watch Big Brother?

 

Isn't that German?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Isn't that German?

Orwell, 1984.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

Isn't that German?

 

I was under the impression that it was made in the UK. Of course, I am often wrong.

[Phil]

Re: Megascale Knockback and Casual Damage

 

The Big Brother format is owned by Endemol, a (now very wealthy) dutch TV production company.