Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

[Kirby]

Would any of you as GMs allow the Penalty Skill for Targeting Skill Level, used to offset Hit Locations, also be used to offset the bonus levels to DCV versus Shrinking characters?

 

The reason this came up is because I have a character to has +4 levels vs. Hit Location modifiers, and I kept missing a character with Shrinking by 1 or 2 points and thought that maybe these PSLs could be applied versus the bonuses from Shrinking (so that my PC w/+4 levels would be able to offset 4 levels/20 points (+4 DCV) of shrinking. (I didn't bother the GM with this, because I didn't want to ruin the fun of the moment.)

 

Any thoughts?

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

Depends on the type of training/whatever that was the basis for the Skill levels... if it was specialized training for assassination, (one to the heart, one to the head) or shooting the hand, then I wouldn't allow it, or allow only a portion of it.

If, however, it was trick shooting, like shooting acorns out of a tree, or Young Guns style shooting out a candle or a cigarette out of a mouth... then I would definitely allow it.

[Kirby]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

In this case, it's the speed of the character, where being a lot faster makes hitting things easier, and thus the called shots aren't as difficult.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

Technically, no; per the book rules, Penalty Skill Levels can only be used to offset OCV penalties, and the DCV of a Shrinking character is not a penalty on you... it's a bonus on them.

 

Having said that, as a GM, I would probably allow you to buy Penalty Skill Levels with offsetting modifiers due to the size of the target. But that would be a separate kind of PSL... I wouldn't let you apply Hit Location PSLs to hitting a small target.

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

In this case' date=' it's the speed of the character, where being a lot faster makes hitting things easier, and thus the called shots aren't as difficult.[/quote']

Sorry- with that being the basis of the skill levels, I'd have to rule against you using them to hit a smaller target.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

In most games, I use a hybrid Range/Size Skill Level, borrowed from the size/range penalties used in GURPS. The basic idea is that if a target is X wide and Y tall, N hexes away moving at a rate of S" per Turn, you would have the same chance of hitting it if it were 2X wide and 2Y tall 2N hexes away moving at 2S" per Turn.

 

The end effect in game is that a Range Penalty Levels can be used to offset anything dealing with the range, size or speed of a target, and thus can be applied versus range penalties, hit location penalties, negate the DCV bonus of a smaller target or any extra DCV gained from using the DCV from velocity rules.

 

Yes, this is quite powerful, but realistic and so far it hasn't been unbalancing. By the rules, this is absolutely not allowed however, and I don't recomend it for any GM of players who are even remotely munchkiny.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

 

You are trying to make it make sense. You KNOW that way lies only madness...

 

Personally, no, I wouldn't, even though you can make a logical argument for it, that is not what you paid the points for.

 

OTOH if it was a real one off I might allow it - maybe half the PSLs to apply, bit like a power stunt.

 

On the gripping hand, I don't like PSLs against hit location penalties: it changes the game dynamic too much - allowing DEX/OCV to be used, in effect, to increase damage rather than having seperate mechanics for hitting and hurting. To my mind, if you are good enough to always hit a specific point, you are good generally, and should be buying the full skill levels. Hit loaction penalties are almost always taken voluntarily, unlike things like range penalties, so I see them as a fundamentally different category.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

Sorry- with that being the basis of the skill levels' date=' I'd have to rule against you using them to hit a smaller target.[/quote']

 

On the other hand, isn't someone's head smaller than the target "someone" in general? Regardless of the SFX, one special effect of PSL's to offset hit location penalties is that they reduce the penalty for targetting something smaller than man-sized.

 

I'm still not sure I'd allow it, but I don't generally use hit locations (beyond for colour) to begin with.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

Hmm. I probably wouldn't allow it. I could just as easily imagine Targetting PSLs as taking advantage of the target's body position and movements rather than being able to more accurately control the movement of the weapon to hit a smaller target area. With that and game balance in mind I'd stick to the general intent of the PSL rules as applying to a specific penalty as defined by the game system.

[Kirby]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

Thanks for your responses. I had been thinking more along the lines if I could call a shot to the thigh/chest, then I might not have a problem hitting something the size of a thigh/chest, but I appreciate your perspectives, even if they are wrong...er, different.

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

On the other hand, isn't someone's head smaller than the target "someone" in general? Regardless of the SFX, one special effect of PSL's to offset hit location penalties is that they reduce the penalty for targetting something smaller than man-sized.

 

I'm still not sure I'd allow it, but I don't generally use hit locations (beyond for colour) to begin with.

While someone's specific hit locations are smaller than the overall target, most shooting training I have ever heard of (I was raised by a Nam era Force Recon Marine, and I did attend some professional classes) involves first visually targeting the torso, then moving to the specific hit location.

 

Just like with golf- I 'tihnk' you don't aim for the hole- few people can even see some of the holes on courses I have seen- you aim for the green, adjust for the flag, and adjust for the hole.

 

On the other hand, my great aunt shoots walnuts out of her tree from her porch with a .38snubnose .

 

(yes, as a matter of fact, it is the hills of KY, lol)

[Kirby]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

On the other hand' date=' my great aunt shoots walnuts out of her tree from her porch with a .38snubnose.[/quote']

Ditto. I'm an expert shot with semi-automatic pistols and just a marksman with rifles. Though, you have be wary of those walnuts; they're crazy.

[Guest daeudi_454]

Re: Targeting Skill Levels and Shrinking

 

Apparently they have been doing that down there since my dad was a young teen. I practice for 3 weeks straight before every visit, and still can't hit one... at least not the one I aim for....its about 25 yards. My dad just shakes his head in shame (he was ranked Sniper in quite a few)