How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

[StGrimblefig]

Here is an interesting article about how different RPGs define the role of the GM. I am not sure I agree as to the importance of this definition to a new player reading the rules, but it is interesting, nonetheless.

 

Of course, he incorrectly stated that the Hero System had no definition, so I posted a correction.

[Markdoc]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

Here is an interesting article about how different RPGs define the role of the GM. I am not sure I agree as to the importance of this definition to a new player reading the rules, but it is interesting, nonetheless.

 

Of course, he incorrectly stated that the Hero System had no definition, so I posted a correction.

 

 

Also interesting to note the responses of different people - some of the definitions he pegged as "best" I though were "worst" - for example CoC's earlier definition "his role is to attempt (within the rules of the game) to set up situations for the players to confront." is a pretty good definition (better, in my estimation, than the rather more rote version that folled), while "it is the GM’s job to interpret all of the various intents of the players’ actions and mesh them into a cohesive whole that fits within the context of the game." is so vague as to be essentially meaningless (as well as setting up potential conflict when the GM's assessment of the player's intent is different from the players').

 

No accounting for taste, eh?

 

cheers, Mark

[Super Squirrel]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

Here is an interesting article about how different RPGs define the role of the GM. I am not sure I agree as to the importance of this definition to a new player reading the rules, but it is interesting, nonetheless.

 

Of course, he incorrectly stated that the Hero System had no definition, so I posted a correction.

Not that it matters. I mean, we don't expect people who have never roleplayed to pick up Hero System. Most people who play the system SHOULD know what a GM is by then. Hell, I never needed to read the role of a gamemaster to play an RPG before.

[zornwil]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

I'm surprised he didn't bring up Capes or other GM-less games. Ah I see the section on just games on his bookshelf, okay.

 

As to Markdoc's point, I also thought CoC's earlier definition was cleaner, and agree Burning Wheel's is rather meaningless or at least non-helpful in some aspects.

 

It's an interesting but I tend to think rather limited exercise. Very few of these games are really defining the GM's role so succinctly. Nearly all define it more as you read through the book and discover where GMs make calls and where they tend not to. I think pulling these quotes out therefore is unfair, and a real study of how these rules guide GM behavior needs to be much more comprehensive and review what it directs throughout the text.

 

BTW, I also don't think that the Warhammer, "he is the final arbiter whose word cannot be disobeyed" isn't at all unfair. It's a heavy-handed phraseology, but it is in essence correct. At the end of the day, the GM does make rulings and in fact he can't effectively be disobeyed. Of course, delivering it in these words is harsh as it leaves out a typical consultative approach that most would take on before delivering a final word, but in the end this really is how it works.

[Markdoc]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

BTW' date=' I also don't think that the Warhammer, "he is the final arbiter whose word cannot be disobeyed" isn't at all unfair. It's a heavy-handed phraseology, but it is in essence correct. At the end of the day, the GM does make rulings and in fact he can't effectively be disobeyed. Of course, delivering it in these words is harsh as it leaves out a typical consultative approach that most would take on before delivering a final word, but in the end this really is how it works.[/quote']

 

Perhaps it was intended to reflect the grim nature of the WH universe?

 

cheers, Mark

[incrdbil]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

You know, does anyone actually read those intro to roleplaying sections except out of some compulsion for completeness or total boredom?

 

Definition of GM you hope to have: The type of person who doesn't need to read an introduction to roleplaying section or have the term GM defined for him.

[Lamrok]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

You can find some odd stuff poking through the "How to run the game" parts of the rules. Here's a bit rom Savage Worlds:

 

It’s most common for people to play from about 6PM

to 11PM on a weeknight, or on a Sunday night. Friday and

Saturday are great if you’re in college, but difficult for older

players who have wives and children as they need their

weekend nights to be with their families. If you start at

6PM, your players have time to get off work, grab some

food (or share pizza with the group), and get deep into the

game by 7 or so.

 

Make sure you wrap things up by 11PM or so as well.

Remember that your players likely have work or classes

the next day and you don’t want game night to be a

stressful experience for them. If you define these things

up front, you can help those players with very busy

schedules figure out ahead of time whether or not they

can handle your game night

 

From my perspective that's some fairly specific and fairly bizarre advice.

[Lemurion]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

I dunno how bizarre it is-- my group plays Sundays at 6 and goes 'til 10 or 11; and you have to admit, it is fairly important to have an idea about how to set up a game.

[archermoo]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

I've always thought of it more in the negative I guess. The GM/Ref/DM/Whatever controls everything the players don't. And the players control their own character. Personally I'd love to find out who keeps telling newbies that the GM is the player's enemy, rather than the person you work with to have a fun time. Sets people up for WAY to much conflict.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

You know, does anyone actually read those intro to roleplaying sections except out of some compulsion for completeness or total boredom?

 

Definition of GM you hope to have: The type of person who doesn't need to read an introduction to roleplaying section or have the term GM defined for him.

As I understood the article, the author sees the definition of GM as more for a new player to get a feel for what the GM's role is in that particular game.

 

I suspect that a game that doesn't include a "what is roleplaying" section (e.g. HERO) assumes that their target audience already has a good idea of the GM's role, and doesn't need a detailed breakdown.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

Also interesting to note the responses of different people - some of the definitions he pegged as "best" I though were "worst" - for example CoC's earlier definition "his role is to attempt (within the rules of the game) to set up situations for the players to confront." is a pretty good definition (better, in my estimation, than the rather more rote version that folled), while "it is the GM’s job to interpret all of the various intents of the players’ actions and mesh them into a cohesive whole that fits within the context of the game." is so vague as to be essentially meaningless (as well as setting up potential conflict when the GM's assessment of the player's intent is different from the players').

 

No accounting for taste, eh?

 

cheers, Mark

I tend to agree. Although I do like the earlier VtM definition listed, that included,"The Storyteller’s primary duty is to make sure the other players have a good time." It reminds us that the goal is for everyone to have fun. That is the main thing that I think is missing in most of the definitions.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

... Burning Wheel's is rather meaningless or at least non-helpful in some aspects.

I am amazed that he holds it up as a good example of "most useful information in the least amount of space — a great balance," when there are two sets of ellipsis (...) in the middle of the quoted passage. That means that there is at least one extraneous sentence in the middle of that definition at each of those places -- doesn't really look like the easiest to read or smallest space to me.

[haiiro]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

Hi, I'm Martin Ralya, the author of the post you're discussing here. I found this thread through my referrer logs.

 

It's interesting to see different perspectives on these definitions (which is one of the reasons I wrote the post), and it really makes it clear how personal of a topic this is. If you're so inclined, I'd love to hear some of your comments over on TT. (And I've linked to this thread in the comments over there, so TT readers can find it.)

 

StGrimblefig: I'm glad you stopped in to correct my mistake on Hero (not having a definition) -- much appreciated!

 

As far as Burning Wheel's definition goes (with its multiple excluded sentences), I like it because in one page it covers a lot of ground. In between the bits I excerpted for the definition are solid, simple examples, and it's the most useful "what is GMing in this game?" section I've ever seen.

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't come across well when looking at just the definition -- which is one of the downsides of just looking at definitions.

 

Thanks for taking an interest in this post.

[zornwil]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

I am amazed that he holds it up as a good example of "most useful information in the least amount of space — a great balance' date='" when there are two sets of ellipsis (...) in the middle of the quoted passage. That means that there is at least one extraneous sentence in the middle of that definition at each of those places -- doesn't really look like the easiest to read or smallest space to me.[/quote']

And maybe, since you mention it and to be fair, it was a lot better when the "extraneous" material wasn't removed!

[zornwil]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

As I understood the article, the author sees the definition of GM as more for a new player to get a feel for what the GM's role is in that particular game.

 

I suspect that a game that doesn't include a "what is roleplaying" section (e.g. HERO) assumes that their target audience already has a good idea of the GM's role, and doesn't need a detailed breakdown.

You know, I had to go look at 5ER to prove to myself that section wasn't really there. I had thought they still had such a section still. I kind of think they should, which on the face of it may contradict some other comments I've made. But, to clarify I hope, I think that HERO is a system that isn't good for people who want/need things all spelled out in detail (i.e., it's really intended for people capable of taking a system and applying logic from that), and I think that along these lines it isn't a good starter system for many people because when first playing in RPGs people like to have lots of things spelled out for them, since it is new territory. However, while I say that, I think - no, make that I am SURE - there are a reasonable number of people who can easily grasp HERO right away even as a first RPG, and for them I think that little "what is roleplaying" section is a needed starting point for orientation. It doesn't have to be long.

 

And I would also add that the only reason I think HERO as such presents issues to newer RPGers is that the amount of detail suggests, incorrectly, that they have to learn all those details. Sidekick does a great job of getting around this (and I don't have Sidekick handy as it's really silly for me to buy a PDF of that just to check it when not home, though I do have a hardcopy version for the sake of it, but I would hope it has a "what is roleplaying" section).

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

Hi, I'm Martin Ralya, the author of the post you're discussing here. I found this thread through my referrer logs.

 

It's interesting to see different perspectives on these definitions (which is one of the reasons I wrote the post), and it really makes it clear how personal of a topic this is. If you're so inclined, I'd love to hear some of your comments over on TT. (And I've linked to this thread in the comments over there, so TT readers can find it.)

Welcome, Martin! I posted the link here because the Hero massmind always has some interesting opinions on gaming in general, and especially comparisons between Hero and other systems.

 

As far as Burning Wheel's definition goes (with its multiple excluded sentences)' date=' I like it because in one page it covers a [i']lot[/i] of ground. In between the bits I excerpted for the definition are solid, simple examples, and it's the most useful "what is GMing in this game?" section I've ever seen.

You caught me. I spoke up without knowing the full story. I do not own Burning Wheel, but perhaps I should have asked what was missing.

 

Unfortunately' date=' that doesn't come across well when looking at just the definition -- which is one of the downsides of just looking at definitions. [/quote']

Indeed. I think it says more about the game author's expectations of his audience, but it is still an interesting comparison.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How 30plus RPGs Define the GM's Role

 

You know' date=' does anyone actually read those intro to roleplaying sections except out of some compulsion for completeness or total boredom? [/quote']

I always do, and never out of boredom or some irrational compulsion. I read these section of every game so I can get a taste of what the authors think and RPG is and is supposted to be, and now they think the players should interact with each other and with the GM. It's in these base descriptions where you can sometimes get a peek behind the author's/designer's eyes and see what they compare their came to others.

Definition of GM you hope to have: The type of person who doesn't need to read an introduction to roleplaying section or have the term GM defined for him.

 

Add in, "but reads it anyway."