mayapuppies Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hello everyone, Taking a break from doing the history of the game world to work on defining magic for said world. My goal is to define the available sources of magic and the possible methodology's for manipulating those sources. Each source and each methodology will have inherent advantages/limitations that will define it. Then I will setup a grid that will allow me to design spell-caster packages based on the combinations. What I have thus far: Sources Ambient: The world is imbued with magic; the energy flows through the air and is contained within every object. Self: This represents the magical energy within the spell caster. Bestowed: This represents magical energy supplied by an external being and given to the caster. Favors: This represents an external being actually performing the magic for the “spell-casterâ€. Methodology Stored: The spell-caster imbues objects with the source to create a result. Willpower: The spell-caster manipulates the source with his force of will. Channeled: The spell-caster becomes a conduit for the source. Formulaic: The spell-caster learns/develops formulaic patterns to manipulate the source. Some examples: Valdorian Age Sorcerer would be classified as Favors/Willpower Typical Priest would be classified as Bestowed/Channeled Typical Wizard would be classified as Ambient/Formulaic Typical Alchemist would be Ambient/Stored Typical Chi based Martial Artist would be Self/Willpower So, here is the gist of my post. Is there any potential source or methodology that I'm missing? Any suggestions or idea's you folks may have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Looks solid to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic I like to hear that. Here's the current list I have. I'm looking to eventually have multiple versions of each combination but for now I've got the following: Stored/Ambient: Alchemist, Runesmith Stored/Self: Tattoo Magic Stored/Bestowed: Alchemist-Priest Stored/Favors: Spirit Mage Willpower/Ambient: Arcanist, Wild Talent Willpower/Self: Chi Master, Dervish Willpower/Bestowed: Sorcerer-Priest, Shaman Willpower/Favors: Sorcerer Channeled/Ambient: Druid Channeled/Self: Channeled/Bestowed: Priest Channeled/Favors: Totemic Shaman Formulaic/Ambient: Wizard Formulaic/Self: Mentalist Formulaic/Bestowed: Ritualists, Corpists Formulaic/Favors: Summoner, Voodoo Priest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Mine is all willpower/belief However - the problem with defining magic is that you run the risk of turning it into a science. And then it just becomes another version of technology, losing all mystery. But on the other hand, it also becomes much easier to simulate in a rules system because of the paradigm it engenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic This is really more of a tool for myself. It also comes in handy when "randomly" determining which culture developed which style of magic by having these all listed out beforehand. My players will never see this stuff in print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Yeah, I shouldn't have mentioned it - I've talked that subject to death and it isn't really very helpful anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Stored/Favors reminds me of the Shi'ar from Al-Qadim. The genie wizards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Stored/Favors reminds me of the Shi'ar from Al-Qadim. The genie wizards. I've been racking my brain trying to find something for that. I'm not familiar with the Al-Qadim supplement, could you elaborate a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic http://www.geocities.com/power_rpg/3EShair.html Here's a d20 (3E) writeup for sha'irs. Their most basic spellcasting powers come from their familiar gen. Whenever they want to cast a spell, the gen goes out looking for it (how long it takes to find depends on how rare the spell is). When the gen comes back with the spell, the sha'ir can cast it. Other abilities should be pretty self explanatory from the link. I found a pdf a few weeks ago converting the al-Qadim setting to 3E, but I forgot where I got it. Probably either http://www.zakhara.com or http://www.al-qadim.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Hey, that's pretty nifty. I'll add that in as a Spirit Mage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Looking at this a little more, it would seem that Channeled/Self is pretty much the same as any other Self-powered magic. The only thing I could think of that would differentiate it from the others would be something like a Wild Mage, who uses magic purely by reflex, and thus probably has little control over it. Formulaic/Bestowed sounds like some sort of Ritualist. Performing certain chants under certain conditions, with certain various bric-a-brac carefully arranged, will tend (for whatever reason) to cause a particular supernatural entity to grant a power or perform some "act of god". This doesn't require any particular faith, like the standard priestly type magic, so (to me at least) this suggests that said entity or entities have some sort of ulterior motive to all these rituals, which in the fullness of time will provide them with more power even than pure faith would. The more I think of it, the more Edomite this sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic I've been racking my brain trying to find something for that. I'm not familiar with the Al-Qadim supplement' date=' could you elaborate a bit?[/quote'] Yeah; I wrestled with several ways to do an Al'Qadim-esque Magic System for the "Riftmagi" of my setting and was unhappy with all of my attempts for different reasons. Luckily, the Valdorian Age has a Magic System that is very close and works very well for that sort of Magic. You might want to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic That would be the Sorcerer correct? After reading some of the posts in Sophia's Barbarians I can see how summoning a Knower of Secrets seems to be damn near parallel...hmmm, read through the Sorcerer stuff a bit more thoroughly and it really does seem to accomplish the Genie Mage quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Actually, Curufea, magic in my campaign is science. Priests are the only ones using "magic," since there's no earthly explanation for what they do. So this makes perfect sense to me without a moment's hesitation. All in all it looks decent, Mayapuppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Mayapuppies : To fill the blank (Formulaic/Bestowed) on your list of examples, how about wizards who use death sacrifices to power their spells? I'd call them 'Necromancers', but technically necromancy is a result (magic that deals with the dead) not a method. Unlike priests who do death sacrifices, these guys wouldn't be doing the sacrifice in order to win the favor of the source, but in order to liberate all of the victim's 'self' power for their use. 'Bestowed' might not be entirely accurate in all cases, of course. Often it would be more of a 'taken'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Mayapuppies : To fill the blank (Formulaic/Bestowed) on your list of examples, how about wizards who use death sacrifices to power their spells? I'd call them 'Necromancers', but technically necromancy is a result (magic that deals with the dead) not a method. Unlike priests who do death sacrifices, these guys wouldn't be doing the sacrifice in order to win the favor of the source, but in order to liberate all of the victim's 'self' power for their use. 'Bestowed' might not be entirely accurate in all cases, of course. Often it would be more of a 'taken'. The Thanomancy Magic System on my site is like that: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/MagicSystems/adeptologyThanomancy.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic That would be the Sorcerer correct? After reading some of the posts in Sophia's Barbarians I can see how summoning a Knower of Secrets seems to be damn near parallel...hmmm' date=' read through the Sorcerer stuff a bit more thoroughly and it really does seem to accomplish the Genie Mage quite well.[/quote'] The idea in the Valdorian age that is useful is using favors to track making deals w/ extra planar entities, which was what I was struggling with. I was attempting to go about it by limiting the summons w different means such as with a mandatory Side Effect Lim or various Disadvantage based schemes, but it all was clumsy and didnt quite get the feel right. The Favor idea is quite clever, and fits perfectly. One of those "SMACK! Why didnt I think of that?" kind of moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Mayapuppies : To fill the blank (Formulaic/Bestowed) on your list of examples, how about wizards who use death sacrifices to power their spells? I'd call them 'Necromancers', but technically necromancy is a result (magic that deals with the dead) not a method. Unlike priests who do death sacrifices, these guys wouldn't be doing the sacrifice in order to win the favor of the source, but in order to liberate all of the victim's 'self' power for their use. 'Bestowed' might not be entirely accurate in all cases, of course. Often it would be more of a 'taken'. I like this, I'll call them Corpists (Thank you Rolemaster for that name). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Channeled/Self is still proving to be rather difficult. How would someone channel their own energy without it seeming like Willpower/Self? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Will/Self uses the casters own immediately available energy to produce effects. You could have Channelled/Self people not use their immediately available 'self' energy directly, but have them save it up over time, storing it either in an external focus, or internally, somehow. They they could 'channel' the stored 'self' energy to produce effects. Its a stretch, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic The Thanomancy Magic System on my site is like that: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/MagicSystems/adeptologyThanomancy.shtml I'm definitely going to use this as a basis for the Corpists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Will/Self uses the casters own immediately available energy to produce effects. You could have Channelled/Self people not use their immediately available 'self' energy directly, but have them save it up over time, storing it either in an external focus, or internally, somehow. They they could 'channel' the stored 'self' energy to produce effects. Its a stretch, but... Interesting... I'm going to think on this a bit. Something along the lines of a "Soul Battery" utilized as an END Reserve, but a very slow, possibly drastic, recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Mmm... END Reserve... still a personal favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Channeled/Self is still proving to be rather difficult. How would someone channel their own energy without it seeming like Willpower/Self? Mechanically it could be built by requiring practitioners to have an END Reserve, all Spells/Powers must cost END, and they have to take the +1/4 Advantage Can Draw END from Personal or Reserve on every Spell/Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchman Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: Defining Magic Maybe they burn STUN instead of END to power their spells. Or Body You could also have their END reserve recharge in a fashion that damages themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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