Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

[Freebooter]

Okay, I need some help in a bad way. I am new to Champions/Hero and I am having a bear of a time. I am looking to make a martial artist character based off Cassandra Cain, Batgirl III. The problem I have is I am limited to 150 character points and 100 points in disads. There are elements I want to capture and there are things I don't need. Any takers?

 

Things I want:

Reads Body Language: I figure that's CSLs with the limitation Requires a Perception Roll

Armored Costume: What level, OIF or IIF?

Tough As Nails: She took out a brick. It took a lot of effort, but she pulled it off. That's what angle I'd like to work. I'm thinking that's Find Weakness.

"I evade gunfire on a nightly basis": Okay, so that's a Batman quote, but still, I want to be darned hard to hit.

Fast!: Speed of 7?

 

Things I don't Need:

The blasted Utility Belt, too expensive!

Disadvantages: I got that part coveredm 100 was tough, but I pulled it off.

 

Additional Notes:

This is a Champions game, not Dark Champions, so I'll need to stand up against Powered Villains, not a whole lot of Mook fights unfortunatly.

I'd like the Swinging power, but that's secondary to survival/effectiveness in combat. Our GM likes fights.

[McCoy]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Is there a point limit on attacks or a recomended level of defenses?

 

Do recomend OIF Armor as the primary defense, even if combined with hight DCV.

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Is there a point limit on attacks or a recomended level of defenses?

 

Do recomend OIF Armor as the primary defense, even if combined with hight DCV.

 

No limit on stuff. I know one NPC Brick has a 60 strength and 31 PD.

[McCoy]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

No limit on stuff. I know one NPC Brick has a 60 strength and 31 PD.

Recomend at least 12 rPD/rED then.

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Cool deal. Trying to get this hammered out by Friday

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Reads Body Language could be just the Analyze skill.

 

Part of your defense could be Combat Luck, which will add to your "Hard to hit" image.

 

In my experience, the guys with SPD above 6 are speedsters (at least semi-speedsters). In the latest incarnation of the Champions Universe, it appears that 5 SPD is average for supers, so 6 should be good for you.

 

You don't need to buy all the slots in the utility belt multipower. You can pick a few that look especially useful and get the rest later. If your starting slots have low active point levels, you could probably buy down the control costs as well.

[McCoy]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Reads Body Language: I figure that's CSLs with the limitation Requires a Perception Roll

Humm, I would say Danger Sense. If we are doing this on a budget, some sort of first strike or fast draw talent, don't have those books handy.

 

Armored Costume: What level' date=' OIF or IIF?[/quote']

As i said, at least 12/12, OIF. Or enough Damage Resistance (focused throught the costume) to cover characteristic PD & ED, with Armor for the rest.

 

Tough As Nails: She took out a brick. It took a lot of effort' date=' but she pulled it off. That's what angle I'd like to work. I'm thinking that's Find Weakness.[/quote']

Or a penetraiting advantage on HA.

 

"I evade gunfire on a nightly basis": Okay' date=' so that's a Batman quote, but still, I want to be darned hard to hit.[/quote']

Martial Dodge.

 

Fast!: Speed of 7?

Be very, very sure you have enough END for seven phases if you take a Speed 7. If you are going to routeinly push, consider a lower SPD.

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Naked Modifier for 15 Strength: Penetrating (+1/2): 7 points? Not sure how to do those on Hero Designer

[McCoy]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Naked Modifier for 15 Strength: Penetrating (+1/2): 7 points? Not sure how to do those on Hero Designer

Don't have 3 yet. In 2, go to powers, select Naked Modifier, set for 15 points (for STR), add the modifier. Yes, came to 7 points.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

What's the current board stance on OIF vs IIF/OIHID? I personally prefer the 2nd, as (to me) it describes the actual effect of most armored costumes more accurately: ie, you really can't pull someone out of them quickly, but they identify the individual as a vigilante. (In contrast, OIF seems to come off a bit too fast if the character has been knocked unconcious.)

 

My personal recommendation, if you can get your GM to buy off on it and if you haven't done so already, it so buy an EC with your main offense/defense/movement/sense powers in them. Call it the "training in [whatever]" style, if you like. Personally, I'd recommend something like "Drunken Monkey", as the name implies lots of jumping around and dodging, which lets you justify buying DCV and Leaping as part of the EC.

 

Other suggestion - if you want to attack a lot, purchase levels of SPD, with the "Only to Kick/Punch (-1)" limitation.

 

Finally - from what I understand of the DC martial arts universe, people like Cassandra Cain don't have a high STR - unlike Bruce, they simply don't have the build for it. Instead, they have a lot of advantages which require concentration and focus: stun them, and their powers drop. (This also explains why such people don't do so well when they are mind-controlled by other villians: the villian is the one that needs to do the focusing, and as such the martial arts part doesn't work as well.)

 

You can reflect this by having your powers take the "nonpersistant" and "requires skill roll" - reflecting the fact that they have to refocus and get the techniques up and working again if they get stunned.

[pinecone]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Some basics...

 

Hard to hit Combat luck x2 12 points

Armored costume +6 Def OIF....cost 12

I read you like a book, +4 with martial art cost 12

As many overall as I can afford ...say +2 Overall cost 20

Find weakness with martial art (11) cost 20

Cool martail arts moves...arround 24 points try flying dodge, defensive block and defensive strike and martial strike add in a throw and an escape plus a nerve strike if you can and add in 4 DCs and you'l likely be close to happy....a utility belt can be real cheap say Multi (30) OIF and load every slot with some additional lims and you're only paying a point a slot...Ep's will fill out your belt nicely And its good roleplay as you keep adding "Stuff I needed last time" to it.....

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Here's what I got so far, help me trim the fat!

 

Midnight

Alternate ID's: David Hill

Player:

Campaign:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Val Char Base Cost

15 STR 10 5

18 DEX 10 24

18 CON 10 16

13 BODY 10 6

13 INT 10 3

13 EGO 10 6

13 PRE 10 3

12 COM 10 1

4/19 PD 3 1

4/19 ED 4 0

6 SPD 2.8 32

11 REC 7 8

50 END 36 7

50 STUN 30 20

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STR Roll: 12- Run: 6"

DEX Roll: 13- Swim: 2"

CON Roll: 13- Leap: 3"

INT Roll: 12-

EGO Roll: 12-

PER Roll: 12-

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disadvantages

Pts.

Social Limitation: Secret Identity: David Hill Frequently (11-), Major 15

Hunted: Campaign Villains 11- (As Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish) 20

Dependent NPC: Sarah Wilson: Girlfriend 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) 15

Hunted: Floating Hunted: Organized Crime 8- (As Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish) 15

Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total 20

Psychological Limitation: Protective Of Innocents (Common, Strong) 15

 

XP

3 Base Points : 150

Disads Total + 100

Experience Spent + 3

Total Cost = 253

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Powers

Pts. END

20 Martial Artist: Find Weakness 11- with Related Group of Attacks

14 Armored Costume: Armor (6 PD/6 ED) (18 Active Points); IIF (-1/4)

 

Martial Arts

Pts.

Hapkido

8 1) +2 HTH Damage Class(es)

5 Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 9d6 Strike

4 Nerve Strike: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 3d6 NND

4 Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 7d6 Strike

3 Joint Lock: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab One Limb; 20 STR for holding on

5 Joint Break: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Grab One Limb; HKA 1 1/2d6 , Disable

 

Skills

Pts.

0 Acting 8-

0 Climbing 8-

3 Concealment 12-

0 Conversation 8-

0 Deduction 8-

3 Breakfall 13-

0 Paramedics 8-

0 Persuasion 8-

3 Shadowing 12-

3 Stealth 13-

0 TF: Custom Adder, Small Motorized Ground Vehicles [Notes: Custom Mod is Everyman Skill]

12 +4 with any three maneuvers or a tight group of attacks

16 +2 with All Combat

 

Talents

Pts.

18 Combat Luck (9 PD/9 ED)

 

34 : Powers Cost

87 + Skills Cost

132 + Characteristics Cost

253 = Total Cost Base OCV: 6 Base DCV: 6

Adjustment+ Adjustment+

Final OCV: Final DCV:

 

Levels: +4 with any three maneuvers or a tight group of attacks,+2 with All Combat

[Tiree]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

OIF / OIHID - these are really the options you have for a focus/limitation for the costume. OIF is -1/2 while OIHID is -1/4. What you have chosen is IIF - it is an inobvious armored costume - thus people will not really see it as a costume. If that is what you are going for, then you picked the right one. Otherwise I might go with OIF for the extra point savings, and then later buy it to OIHID.

 

But you really need to figure out what kind of point caps there really are or should be reasonably encountered. The 5th Ed (not sure about revised) of the Hero System gives you great guidelines to build a character. In a 250 point game I can't really see anyone going over speed 5, unless they were a speedster. I have had quite a quick and efficient character at speed 3!

 

I would also really think about getting that MultiPower/Gadget Pool. Buy the Pool at OIF and the slots OAF with Lockout, and you pretty much have some good extra abilities.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Things I want:

Reads Body Language: I figure that's CSLs with the limitation Requires a Perception Roll

Armored Costume: What level, OIF or IIF?

Tough As Nails: She took out a brick. It took a lot of effort, but she pulled it off. That's what angle I'd like to work. I'm thinking that's Find Weakness.

"I evade gunfire on a nightly basis": Okay, so that's a Batman quote, but still, I want to be darned hard to hit.

Fast!: Speed of 7?

 

Things I don't Need:

The blasted Utility Belt, too expensive!

Disadvantages: I got that part coveredm 100 was tough, but I pulled it off.

 

Reads Body Language: +3 OCVs (RSR: Analyze (Body Language))

Armored Costume: 8 rPD/5 rED (OIF: Costume)

Tough as Nails: Find Weakness would be real good for that.

I Evade Gunfire: +3 DCV (Only vs. Ranged Attacks -1/2)

As far as the Utility Belt, stick with a 30pt Multi-power (OIF: Belt) and make all the slots ultra slots ... not too bad in cost.

[Freebooter]

Game Session Today

 

So the big problem we have with our game group is we have trouble getting all of us together at one time. One of the GOOD things about it is our GM lets us do mock fights to try to adjust our characters while we are still in the getting used to the system stage.

 

Our Group:

Iron Maiden: Growth, Density Increase Brick: She has a Dex of 24, wowzers.

 

Archie/Reggie: Martial Artist, was part of a secret government brain wash experiment to make sleeper agents. Archie is the laid back pacifist hippy and Reggie is his Commando trained hurt-wagon. Split personalities, woo!

 

Midnight: Son of a policeman who was killed in action, adopted by a friend of the family that got him into martial arts (Golden Demon Kung-fu). She revealed herself to him as a former assassin and bid him to use his abilities to help mankind in the memory of his father.

-----------------------------------------------------

Their Group:

Hercules: Mystically powered Brick, big mouth, and tough. I know he has at least a 60 Strength and 30 PD, oy.

 

Mercura: Semi-Speedster, martial artist. She beat down Archie in our last meeting and humiliated him. Reggie is not happy.

 

Unicorn: Energy Projector, flys and her beams come out of a gem in her forhead. Mystic, no idea.

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

The villains were robbing a warehouse, had the dock workers tied up and were in the process of planning what to do next. Iron Maiden knocked a giant sized hole in the main door and demanded to know what was going on. Hercules answered, "Its a robbery you dumb B---." At that point combat began.

 

Iron Maiden lept at Herc, she missed, he missed.

Reggie rushed Mercura, having to avenge his/Archie's humilation last meeting (Merc dropped his trousers after knocking him out and wrote a remark about small anatomy in lip stick)

Mercura rushed Reggie, not knowing that this was really not the same person she beat up last time.

Midnight rushed at Unicorn, but was not fast enough to cross the distance in one move. (Need movement power, planning on swinging).

 

Reggie swong at Mercura and she blocked. Midnight, seeing that Mercura was closer to him than Unicorn was changed targets and managed to hit her despite her attempts at blocking.

Iron Maiden, tired of Herc's mouth knocked him flying (11" of knockback), he fell on his butt (GM noted he needed Breakfall).

Unicorn took to the air and flew back, Reggie and Midnight have no way to reach her at that height not to mention distance away.

 

Mercura having failed her block against Midnight got pasted by Reggie and knocked out. Unicorn, seeing her opening fired an explosive blast in the middle of Reggie and Midnight. Reggie tried to dive for cover and was knocked out by the explosion. Midnight lifted his cape to defend himself from most of the explosion (Armor and Combat Luck, thanks for the tips!)

Herc got up and attempted a Move-Through on Iron Maiden, Midnight yelled at him, "Try that with me," and as the Mouthy-one ran past hit the Brick with a Nerve Strike (Mm, NND, good stuff).

Iron Maiden took the hit and hit Herc back, the two Bricks having a time hurting each other.

 

Iron Maiden got the plan Midnight was going for and changed dance partners, she lept on Unicorn and collided mid-air with a Grab-by. Reggie recovered and jumped on Herc's back, hitting him with a Choke Hold (Commando Training!). Herc is in trouble now, he cant seem to put a hand on Midnight and Reggie, while they are putting a hurt on him with their NND attacks. Iron Maiden starts to crush Unicorn who tries to blast her way out. That doesn't go well for her. Both she and Iron Maiden crash to the floor, only the large steel woman stood up.

 

Choke, Nerve Strike and the GM says, "Well I thought I'd never say this, but Hercules goes to sleepy-bye land".

 

The heroes come out on top, rock...on.

[Freebooter]

Thoughts

 

Short of needing some sort of super-movement I am really pleased with how Midnight did in this combat. Hercules was basically the villain I was worried about in the campaign because he has beat down our Brick before and that made him a little intimidating.

 

Golden Demon Kung-fu is cool, I have all the maneuvers and now I can branch out to others with XP allowing me to make more choices in combat.

 

Man, I love NND that took Herc down quick, but I don't think the trick will work every time, but it left me with a happy grin that it worked this time.

 

Swinging, I need to work on a Line Gun Multi Power I think, might take a while but it will be cool when I work it out.

 

Utility Belt, oh yes, this will be a long term goal of mine and it seems like it'll take a while to work out with XP. Looking forward to RPing that aspect.

[Checkmate]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Well it seems you've already started, but what I would have suggested if I'd seen this earlier:

You END and STUN are through the roof.

I'd make STUN 40.

 

For END you only have a 15 STR. That means you'll only use 1 maybe 2 END per phase. That's 12 END a turn (with a 6 SPD) and you have an 11 REC. That means you could go 50 Turns with no extra recoveries. That's a bit much, I'd just leave it at 36 (maybe 40 if you're like me and like round numbers)

 

The rest I would do if I'd need the points (and if I were making the character, I would for the skills I'd want)

Drop the EGO to 11 (you still get a 4 ECV with 11 or 13)

Drop the BODY to 11 (unless the game was really leathal).

This is what I came up with:

Gah, templete didn't work:

 

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

23 DEX 39

18 CON 16

11 BODY 2

18 INT 8

11 EGO 2

13 PRE 3

14 COM 2

 

5/20 PD 2

5/20 ED 1

5 SPD 17

10 REC 6

36 END 0

40 STUN 12

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

3" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 115

 

Cost Power END

22 Armored Cape: Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2) 0

27 Utility Belt: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

1u 1) Swing Gun: Swinging 20" (20 Active Points); OAF (-1) 2

1u 2) Batarang: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OAF (-1) [1 rc]

1u 3) Flash Bomb: Sight Group Flash 4d6, Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1) (40 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), IAF (-1/2) [3]

1u 4) Re-Breather: Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing), 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (+0) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Nonpersistent (-1/4) [1 cc]

Powers Cost: 53

 

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

Martial Arts

4 1) Atemi Strike: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2d6 NND

4 2) Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

4 3) Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

4 4) Knifehand Strike ("chop"): 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, HKA 1d6 +1

3 5) Legsweep: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -1 DCV, 4d6 Strike, Target Falls

4 6) Punch/Snap Kick: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 5d6 Strike

5 7) Side/Spin Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 7d6 Strike

Martial Arts Cost: 28

 

Cost Skill

3 Scholar

1 1) KS: Karate (2 Active Points) 11-

1 2) KS: Kung-Fu (2 Active Points) 11-

1 3) KS: Tae-Kwon-Do (2 Active Points) 11-

1 4) KS: Tai-Chi (2 Active Points) 11-

3 Acrobatics 14-

5 Analyze: Combat 14-

3 Breakfall 14-

3 Climbing 14-

6 +2 with Martial Maneuvers

3 Computer Programming 13-

3 Concealment 13-

3 Lockpicking 14-

3 Paramedics 13-

3 Security Systems 13-

3 Shadowing 13-

3 Sleight Of Hand 14-

3 Stealth 14-

3 Streetwise 12-

Skills Cost: 54

 

Total Character Cost: 250

--------------------------------------------

Now obviously you could play around with things. Those were just example powers really that I put in the utility belt to show how cheap it could be. The KS: for the martial arts means that if say Kung-Fu and karate both use the Offensive Strike manuver, she can define when she attacks if it will be a Kung-fu style strike or a karate style strike. You can mix and match the KS's with things you think would fit better.

 

Also don't forget that Analyze: Combat will give you "skill levels" if you make your roll by enough. Wish I'd seen this sooner to help ya

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Nah man, you are right on time. See, until we can get the whole group together these little skirmish fights are so we can make adjustments. For example Archie/Reggie is a real paper tiger. When he wants to he can dish out 14d6 damage (wow) but he better make his dodges/blocks because all he has is 3PD and 4ED.

 

I just plunked those stats into my Hero Designer and zipped them off to the GM for final approval. Now, I just need to find an artist that works "cheap"

[Checkmate]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Nah man, you are right on time. See, until we can get the whole group together these little skirmish fights are so we can make adjustments. For example Archie/Reggie is a real paper tiger. When he wants to he can dish out 14d6 damage (wow) but he better make his dodges/blocks because all he has is 3PD and 4ED.

 

I just plunked those stats into my Hero Designer and zipped them off to the GM for final approval. Now, I just need to find an artist that works "cheap"

Well in that case, I'll do a little more explaining so you can customize a bit more:

 

You'll notice I moved the armor to the cape. This will let you add the OIF limit that the GM can take away without taking away the Secret ID of the character. I've also added an Actvation 14- which better represents an armored cape, but could leave you in a bind if you miss that roll. Best bet is not to get hit (which is why I've raised the DEX).

 

There is a lot you can do with the utility belt, starting with getting rid of it all together. Or if you like the idea you could get rid of the EB, and ditch the AoE on the Flash (and call the flash pepper spray), then add Gliding (cape stiffens with controls from the belt. Without belt cape doesn't glide), maybe a 2" Darkness field with contiuning charges. The Multipower pool could be brought down to 20 active points OIF so would only cost 13points, and most abilities would cost 1point. That would save you some on other skills.

 

I think if I were making the character I would ditch the utility belt and add 2 CSL's

+1 w/ combat, only usable vs person made an Analyze check on.

+1 w/ combat, only usable vs person made an Analyze check -3 on.

 

So if you make your Analyze check by 3 or more you get to use both CSL's (plus the one that comes from Analyze). If you make it by less than 3 you get the one CSL. This would represent her "reading" of her enemy. Then I'd buy Combat Sense for 15points (can fight in the dark and while blinded).

 

EDIT: Whoops, I thought things were coming out too well. I forgot to add +3DC to her martial arts. That's 12 points you'd have to shave off...or you could always add a 3d6 HA to her utility belt and a Weapons Element to her martial arts

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

I'd like to thank all of you who helped me make this character. I couldn't get the numbers to work out for me and I have been through all sorts of characters in this campaign. The whole time this is what I wanted to make and at last I have it. I _hope_ to get to play this Saturday with the revised version of Midnight. If so, I'll let you know how it works out.

[pinecone]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

cool...let us know how it works out.....

[Freebooter]

Re: Need Expert Stat Help: Batgirl III 250pts?

 

Well sadly we didn't get to play this week due to poor scheduling. It did however give the GM the time to settle down and work on re-tooling the campaign. At first we had three players and a GM and we all settled down to work out what we wanted out of the campaign. Of those three players I was the only one left and the GM said basically, "Lets make sure this is what everyone is happy with this week. Next weekend its game on." Me, I am happy I have found a great artist that can work with my budget so soon I will have a visual aid for my fellow players.