Gurps Space 4th edition

[gojira]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

GURPS historical stuff is also pretty good. I have GURPS Egypt and it's great. GURPS Rome is also pretty good. GURPS Japan left me a little meh.

 

The new GURPS Space seems like it would probably tick me off. GURPS Bestiary is 51 pages of beasts and 77 pages of other stuff. A big chunk of the other stuff is a cut and paste from GURPS Aliens (the rules for creating alien races) and GURPS Supers (rules which are a lot like ... Hero System).

 

That really cheesed me off.

 

Then they published the same rules yet again in GURPS Compendium 1 & 2. Nice. Then GURPS Bio-tech was really a lot less like Shadowrun and a lot more like buying the same rules and the core rules again, just lamer. (I can make a guy with +1 strength and say it's because he's got like bio implants? Wow, really?)

 

Bio-tech was not well written or well thought out. It's the unsteady editorship and writing, and the lack of clear direction with the rules, that shooed me away.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

Basically it's been said openly on the forums there that there are two standards. One for people the mods personally like and one for people they just don't like.

 

If they like you you can get away with insulting large groups, like democrats, liberals, etc. If they dislike you, one in particular will find an excuse to ban you and delte your posts.

 

Well, that sounds childish.

 

When I think of what I've seen and heard of some RPG company forums and how they treat way too many of their fans, I wonder if some of these guys are deliberately trying to chase their customers away.

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

Once upon a time, I've been told, SJG printed a bumper sticker than read "If we outlaw guns how will we shoot all the liberals?"

 

Any company that does that forfeits all rights to condemn anyone else for being offensive.

 

There are wonderful gurps products, sadly, like transhuman space and the traveller line. Reign of steel was a good idea too. I've also respected gurps for bringing great literary works to the game world.It's too bad that a few people on the forums, like andy hackard and, to a degree steve jackson himself, give the company the image of a hypocritical and arrogant attitude.

 

BTW, hackard is the former editor for sjg so it's not a wonder a lot of the editing on some products was bad.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

Once upon a time' date=' I've been told, SJG printed a bumper sticker than read "If we outlaw guns how will we shoot all the liberals?"[/quote']While not impossible, this seems quite unlikely to me. While there may well be some anti-liberal bias in members of the company (it is based in Texas, after all ), I see no evidence that SJ or the company as a whole has some big anti-liberal bias or conservative agenda. If anything, the opposite. For example, SJ is a huge fan of Discordianism, with SJG even publishing an edition of the Principia Discordia -- all of whose founders/writers were definitely liberals (albeit radical anarchistic/libertarian liberals as opposed to highly socialistic liberals). Also, renowned left-leaning editorial cartoonist Ben Sargent worked with SJG on the Murphy's Rules stuff over the years. I really don't see them pushing a reactionary conservative political agenda.

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

While not impossible' date=' this seems quite unlikely to me. While there may well be some anti-liberal bias in members of the company (it is based in Texas, after all ), I see no evidence that SJ or the company as a whole has some big anti-liberal bias or conservative agenda. If anything, the opposite. For example, SJ is a huge fan of Discordianism, with SJG even publishing an edition of the [i']Principia Discordia[/i] -- all of whose founders/writers were definitely liberals (albeit radical anarchistic/libertarian liberals as opposed to highly socialistic liberals). Also, renowned left-leaning editorial cartoonist Ben Sargent worked with SJG on the Murphy's Rules stuff over the years. I really don't see them pushing a reactionary conservative political agenda.

 

Well, some users there are extremely right wing, and I've seen them make 'jokes' about shooting all democrats and liberals, and making some extremely offensive remakrs about democratic political figures, and they don't get banned.

 

I have a tagline that reads 'the first casualty of islam is free speech' and it gets deleted. I change it to "the first casualty of political correctness is free speech" and I get banned and my posts deleted.

 

Sounds like you can insult democrats there and it's OK, but offend anyone else and you're dead.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

I have no idea what the state of affairs on their boards is, I was just observing that I don't see any bias in what the company produces, which makes me doubt the bumper-sticker thing.

[Guest Schwarzwald]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

I have no idea what the state of affairs on their boards is' date=' I was just observing that I don't see any bias in what the company produces, which makes me doubt the bumper-sticker thing. [/quote']

 

Hmm, some people have commented on a subtle political and social bias in some gurps products, and I've noticed it too.

 

On one alternate earth, most of the world went socialist in the early 20th century, and suddenly the planet literally started dieing. I mean, it was as if the writer believed that the planet earth would literally die if human society went to the left.

 

it's just as valid to say that id complete capitalism had swept the world then the world might die from deforestation, acid raid, pollution, etc.

 

But apparently they only decided that socialism, not capitalism, would literally kill the planet.

 

Some people have mentioned this as political bias in gurps. I never thought much of it until I heard about that bumper sticker.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

Hmm, some people have commented on a subtle political and social bias in some gurps products, and I've noticed it too.

 

On one alternate earth, most of the world went socialist in the early 20th century, and suddenly the planet literally started dieing. I mean, it was as if the writer believed that the planet earth would literally die if human society went to the left.

 

it's just as valid to say that id complete capitalism had swept the world then the world might die from deforestation, acid raid, pollution, etc.

 

But apparently they only decided that socialism, not capitalism, would literally kill the planet.

 

Some people have mentioned this as political bias in gurps. I never thought much of it until I heard about that bumper sticker.

Okay, I'll give you that one... I agree that Infinite Worlds has a definite anti-socialist tone. (Though I'm not sure how much of that is due to bias by SJG as a whole, SJ as an individual, or Ken Hite's own bias (if any) as the author. )

 

I guess it all depends on how you view conservative vs. liberal. There does seem to be something of an anti-authoritarian, pro-individual, bias in their stuff. So for someone who strongly associated the word "liberal" with big government, I can see where there might be an "anti-liberal" bias.

[CSgeekHero]

Re: Gurps Space 4th edition

 

Well, this conversation is veering too close to NGD territory.

My last word on the subject is that I have not seen any political bias on their boards. I have seen the we're l33t and your not so we don't like you mindset pervading the place.

 

As for Space 4e, I give it a 2.5 out of 5 because it is only half-a-book. Too bad James Cambias was hamstrung by an incomplete ruleset.

 

Maybe he should do a StarHERO update book or something.