WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

The only issue I have with this no-win situation - whether or not there's possibility of character development is no matter what you do YOU DIE.

 

I mean, seriously. Stand With Powers or Stand Without Powers either way you DIE.

 

not even a You can Die With Your Powers or You Can Live Without Them. You just DIE.

 

You misunderstood the parameters of the original post, then, the wave causes no disruption to those at the power level of Incompetent Normals and below:

 

All divination powers essentially reveal the same thing: that the effect will be to harm all those better than "incompetent human" in power level (yes' date=' this will affect most normal humans too), causing levels of disruption proportionate to the power level of the character.[/quote']

[ghost-angel]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

You misunderstood the parameters of the original post' date=' then, the wave causes no disruption to those at the power level of Incompetent Normals and below:[/quote']

pretty much the equivelant as far as I'm concerned. At incompetant you don't even have the non-superpower knowledge set (Skills).

 

And I did note the part about when Ms Supress dies your powers come back and you DIE. But if I read it right Ms Supress can become Ms Remove and take all your Powers away before the wave hits and you don't DIE just become Incompetant, which may as well be DEAD. An Incompentat Normal is a 0 POINT person. None. And that's only if they stack up 25pts in Disads, which is easy once you get NCM and a 5pt Psych Lim.

 

I'm sorry - this one is just retarded.

 

I can see the No Win situation where the Hero has to sacrafice something for the greater good - even themselves. But some GOOD or SUCCESS comes out of it. Not just YOU DIE or YOU'RE USELESS.

 

If you'd worded it "You can DIE in the wave, or give up your Powers (retaining skils, etc...) you live on in the hopes of still doing some good in the aftermath...

 

But no. YOU DIE.

 

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

If you'd worded it "You can DIE in the wave, or give up your Powers (retaining skils, etc...) you live on in the hopes of still doing some good in the aftermath...

 

But no. YOU DIE.

 

Again, that wasn't how it was stated. As for the hope of doing some good in the aftermath, the way Precognitive powers stop working inside the wave (even for viewing it) prevents everyone from knowing how it will turn out. What is hope? Is it rooted in reason, or can part of it come from faith? Do we wait apathetically for reason to come to us, or do we keep going on faith, determined to find something more substantial?

 

You might want to read my reply to input.jack for more of that, but pretend I didn't mistake incrdbil for you

 

[edit: there is a way to save everyone and ensure humanity's survival, even at the "no skills" level]

[ghost-angel]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

whatever. If that's how you think it read work on your English skills because that's not how it actually read.

[massey]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

This is not an interesting WWYCD. There are only 3 possibilities:

 

1) Everyone dies, except morons. Then they die because they're not competent enough to survive.

 

2) We turn ourselves into Eloi.

 

3) Some powerful characters ignore the parameters of the scenario and say "I'm going to stop it anyway." I have a character or two who CAN stop the reality wave. It will make the GM mad, but in this case, I don't care.

 

This is one of those scenarios where I get up from the table, slap the gamemaster, and say "You don't get to run anymore, Chris!"

 

What do you intend to DO after this? Your game is over. You've just eliminated all the heroes and villains. No soup for you.

[ghost-angel]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

This is not an interesting WWYCD. There are only 3 possibilities:

 

1) Everyone dies, except morons. Then they die because they're not competent enough to survive.

 

2) We turn ourselves into Eloi.

 

3) Some powerful characters ignore the parameters of the scenario and say "I'm going to stop it anyway." I have a character or two who CAN stop the reality wave. It will make the GM mad, but in this case, I don't care.

 

This is one of those scenarios where I get up from the table, slap the gamemaster, and say "You don't get to run anymore, Chris!"

 

What do you intend to DO after this? Your game is over. You've just eliminated all the heroes and villains. No soup for you.

Yes, Exactly!

 

Thank you for putting it better than I did.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

whatever. If that's how you think it read work on your English skills because that's not how it actually read.

 

I daresay the responses of those people who did try to answer the question, indicate that not everyone thought so

 

This is one of those scenarios where I get up from the table, slap the gamemaster, and say "You don't get to run anymore, Chris!"

 

What do you intend to DO after this? Your game is over. You've just eliminated all the heroes and villains. No soup for you.

 

Faced with a situation where the way out isn't handed to you on a silver platter, do you assume the GM just doesn't want to run anymore? When facts appear to contradict each other, check your basic premises.

 

When normal (non-super) people hear that the world is about to be destroyed (again), and they know they can do nothing to stop it; and they know that the heroes have so far been powerless to stop it; do they give up on life and say "Might as well commit suicide now, since we can't see a way that anyone will live through this."? No - they keep on with their lives.

 

Why???

 

If they truly are going to be destroyed, then there's nothing they can do about it. But if, by some miracle, it turns out that they survive, their lives won't fall apart for their having been too quick to despair.

 

Maybe the wave will pass soon enough after it came for people to recover and rebuild. Maybe some things can be done to prolong the time they can manage to keep alive as morons (8 Intelligence, by the way, isn't that much worse than 10). But you're not going to find out about those if you don't have the basic hope that nearly every normal on this freakin' planet has.

 

Heroes and villains, by the way, are proven more by their heart and strength of character than by their superpowers.

[massey]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Faced with a situation where the way out isn't handed to you on a silver platter, do you assume the GM just doesn't want to run anymore? When facts appear to contradict each other, check your basic premises.

 

When normal (non-super) people hear that the world is about to be destroyed (again), and they know they can do nothing to stop it; and they know that the heroes have so far been powerless to stop it; do they give up on life and say "Might as well commit suicide now, since we can't see a way that anyone will live through this."? No - they keep on with their lives.

 

Why???

 

If they truly are going to be destroyed, then there's nothing they can do about it. But if, by some miracle, it turns out that they survive, their lives won't fall apart for their having been too quick to despair.

 

Maybe the wave will pass soon enough after it came for people to recover and rebuild. Maybe some things can be done to prolong the time they can manage to keep alive as morons (8 Intelligence, by the way, isn't that much worse than 10). But you're not going to find out about those if you don't have the basic hope that nearly every normal on this freakin' planet has.

 

Heroes and villains, by the way, are proven more by their heart and strength of character than by their superpowers.

 

Isn't handed to me on a silver platter? Son, I've gamed with the meanest GMs on Earth. They'd kill at least 2 characters every week, just to keep the blood flowing. I am not scared of your adventure.

 

I don't care about "blah blah basic hope in the human condition". You know why? Because it's NOT REAL. This sounds like an excuse for the GM to preach at us for several sessions. In real life, we would keep our fingers crossed, say our prayers, and hope for the best. In a game? Dude, the game is over. The game is over when Superman becomes a guy with straight-8s and no powers. The PCs now lack any power to act. You've forced the world into a crappy version of Harrison Bergeron. You know what happens in Harrison Bergeron? He gets shot and dies.

 

I'm not going to sit around and listen to the GM wax poetic and detail the struggle of humanity for 6 sessions. That's lame, and most GMs have some pretty stupid ideas about humanity. The game is over because we're no longer playing super-heroes. Now we're playing "how does Corky avoid drinking Drano".

 

And supervillains aren't dangerous if they're suddenly stripped of their powers, cunning, resources, and contacts. Me: "Oh gee, it's Galactus. I'm scared. Good thing I've got a Saint Bernard with me. Sic 'em, Cujo!" Cujo: "Grrrr..." Galactus: "Aaahhh!!!"

[ghost-angel]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Asked my wife about this inanity...

 

According to her this is asking how much of an optimist we are, as Characters or Players. Die or strip ourselves of EVERYTHING to live on hoping something else comes along....

 

yes or no?

 

no sentences. no explanations. no paragraphs. no exposition

 

is that the essence, yes or no?

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Isn't handed to me on a silver platter? Son' date=' I've gamed with the meanest GMs on Earth. They'd kill at least 2 characters every week, just to keep the blood flowing. I am not scared of your adventure.[/quote']

 

I neither said nor implied that you were scared.

 

This sounds like an excuse for the GM to preach at us for several sessions. In real life' date=' we would keep our fingers crossed, say our prayers, and hope for the best. In a game? Dude, the game is over.[/quote']

 

Metagaming over roleplaying, then. You perceive the game to be over, and haven't even the thought to ask the GM if this is truly the case. Honestly, if you were one of my players, I'd let you leave.

 

I'm not going to sit around and listen to the GM wax poetic and detail the struggle of humanity for 6 sessions.

 

The GM seemed pretty aware that you wouldn't sit around for all the sessions you've been playing and listen to him describe how your character goes to the loo, either, didn't he? But suddenly, for no apparent reason, you think that he's not going to skip over the boring intervals here. Or perhaps it's just that you think there isn't going to be any intervals, because the changes are somehow irreversible (and the wave will not pass in your character's lifetime).

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Asked my wife about this inanity...

 

According to her this is asking how much of an optimist we are, as Characters or Players. Die or strip ourselves of EVERYTHING to live on hoping something else comes along....

 

yes or no?

 

no sentences. no explanations. no paragraphs. no exposition

 

is that the essence, yes or no?

 

No.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

No.

 

And, because I'm not going to let you turn this into an either-or false dilemma:

 

No, it had nothing to do with the player's optimism. You and a few others were the only ones, and the first ones, to bring up the idea of metagaming around the situation instead of roleplaying through it.

 

No, it was not only about optimism. Optimism was certainly one of several factors that could have played a role in the character's response, but the scenario doesn't have nothing to do with optimism.

[ghost-angel]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Well, then you better explain it to me succintly.

[dbsousa]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Golden Eagle picks up a new incompetent DNPC

 

Save the World Boy

 

Val Char Cost

6 STR -4

6 DEX -12

8 CON -4

8 BODY -4

20 INT 10

8 EGO -4

8 PRE -2

8 COM -1

 

1 PD 0

2 ED 0

1 SPD 0

3 REC 0

10 END -3

15 STUN 0

 

1" RUN -10

0" SWIM -2

1" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: -36

 

Cost Power

13 Fix-it Blast: Major Transform 1d6 (World after the wave into world before the wave), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Megascale (1" = 100 billion km; +3) (67 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), No Range (-1/2), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), Gestures (Requires Gestures throughout; -1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Cannot Be Used With Multiple-Power Attacks (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

Powers Cost: 13

 

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: -23

 

Base Points: 0

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

 

 

Sure, its a ridiculous character, but desperate ridiculous premises call for desperate moves

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Well' date=' then you better explain it to me succintly.[/quote']

 

The scenario has four entwining elements. They are:

 

1. Belief. Faced with the end of the universe as they know it, will the character refuse to accept that this is really going to happen?
   
2. Faith. Does the character resign themselves to their fate, or continue to have faith that this will pass in time?
   
3. Action. What does the character attempt to do with what may be their last moments?
   
4. Innovation. This last element tests the character's ability to "think outside of the box".

There are four problems within the scenario that, if rendered no longer problematic, can eventually restore the universe to how it was before:

 

1. The long-term survival of humanity. When everyone is an Incompetent Normal, how long will it take before the species dies out?
   
2. The eventual recovery of humanity (when the wave passes). Can the plans to rebuild be stored in such a way that they will not be destroyed by nature and the passing of time, nor accessed until another wave restores everything to normal, but easily available to humans of normal levels?
   
3. The immediate survival of the superheroes (and everyone else who is better than an Incompetent normal). There is a superheroine in the scenario to lead thoughts in the right direction, but her solution would not accomplish #3:
   
4. The eventual restoration of superpowers. If the powers cannot be merely inaccessible ("latent") without destroying the character, how to ensure that superpowers will return when the quantum wave recedes?

All of these problems can be addressed, some more easily than others if the characters investigate various possibilities and theories within the scenario (thus learning more hints). But the base scenario tests belief, faith, action, and innovation by not providing those clues up-front to the characters.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Total Character Cost: -23

 

Nice thought, but stats like that are an out-of-character mechanic. Power level as a concept is more about "things that add to cost" than "cosmic balance of how screwed the character is". Otherwise you could just give all your superheroes 700 points of Disadvantages and call it a day

[ghost-angel]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

how very exactingly specific of you. Especially for such a vague opening.

 

once you learn English you'll realize the answer to my question was Yes.

 

 

There Is No God, There Is No King, There Is No Saint Of Broken Dreams

There Is Only You And Truth And Soul, A Superhero Is Your Role

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

how very exactingly specific of you. Especially for such a vague opening.

 

Those who engaged the question asked some of their own, and learned some answers. As stated, this was part of the scenario.

 

once you learn English you'll realize the answer to my question was Yes.

 

To the question you asked?

 

Asked my wife about this inanity...

 

According to her this is asking how much of an optimist we are, as Characters or Players.

 

Half of that (not the Player part) is one of the questions, yes. But you didn't ask that.

 

is that the essence, yes or no?

 

No, that isn't the essence. You might have meant something else by your question but how could I have known that? I took you at your word, and if you had been using the same exacting level of precision in your question that I have in my answers, there would have been no chance of misunderstanding.

[massey]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

I neither said nor implied that you were scared.

 

 

 

Metagaming over roleplaying, then. You perceive the game to be over, and haven't even the thought to ask the GM if this is truly the case. Honestly, if you were one of my players, I'd let you leave.

 

I don't ask the GM if he's ending the game when he does something like this. He DOES end the game because everyone gets up and leaves.

 

The GM seemed pretty aware that you wouldn't sit around for all the sessions you've been playing and listen to him describe how your character goes to the loo, either, didn't he? But suddenly, for no apparent reason, you think that he's not going to skip over the boring intervals here. Or perhaps it's just that you think there isn't going to be any intervals, because the changes are somehow irreversible (and the wave will not pass in your character's lifetime).

 

I don't care about anything afterwards. If a buddy of mine calls me up and says "Hey, let's watch the Superbowl," then I expect to watch the Superbowl. I don't expect him to pull out his home movies and try and make me watch that during the second half. Sure, he may eventually turn the game back on, but then again, he may not. Once I see his plan is markedly different from what I had agreed to, I'm leaving. I'll go watch the second half somewhere else.

 

Skipping over the boring intervals? The WHOLE THING is a boring interval.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

I don't ask the GM if he's ending the game when he does something like this. He DOES end the game because everyone gets up and leaves.

 

You seem pretty confident that noone else would have a reaction different from your own.

 

Skipping over the boring intervals? The WHOLE THING is a boring interval.

 

I disagree. Furthermore, the few months prior to the arrival of the quantum wave (on Earth) would be interesting enough that I could easily run a campaign based on this single scenario alone.

[sinanju]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

You seem pretty confident that noone else would have a reaction different from your own.

 

And with good reason, in my experience. Or, alternatively, the players would take the game every bit as seriously as the scenario suggests we should. It would turn into Laurel & Hardy go on a super-powered crime spree, indulging their every whim and trashing the campaign city/world with great glee in the process.

 

I've SEEN that one happen. Hell, I participated.

 

I disagree. Furthermore, the few months prior to the arrival of the quantum wave (on Earth) would be interesting enough that I could easily run a campaign based on this single scenario alone.

 

Have fun. I wouldn't play in it, nor would a lot of the folks posting here. I've got better things to do.

[Robyn]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

And with good reason' date=' in my experience.[/quote']

 

Thankfully, we don't all share your experiences of such things.

 

Or, alternatively, the players would take the game every bit as seriously as the scenario suggests we should. It would turn into Laurel & Hardy go on a super-powered crime spree, indulging their every whim and trashing the campaign city/world with great glee in the process.

 

I've SEEN that one happen. Hell, I participated.

 

Tell me - did the GM in that case actually intend to end the campaign?

 

If not, I submit that you misinterpreted the scenario then and you're misinterpreting it now. If so, I submit that you did so because of the GM, not because the scenario itself was inherently less-than-serious.

 

Have fun. I wouldn't play in it' date=' nor would a lot of the folks posting here. I've got better things to do.[/quote']

 

If you wouldn't play in it, then you are welcome to not play in it. As for the rest of the folks here, they can speak for themselves, and by action or inaction certainly would if I actually offered to run the thing . . . which I'm not, because that would mean I'd have to delay posting the scenario until the players had figured out everything that might be spoiled for them

[sinanju]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Tell me - did the GM in that case actually intend to end the campaign?

 

No, he didn't. He just expected us to obediently swallow whatever moronic scenario he dreamed up. When the GM presents a campaign concept to the players, they should reasonably be able to expect that the scenarios they encounter will run true to the premise.

 

It's no different than a player creating a clown for a grim pulp-style game, or a murderous iron-age anti-hero for a classic four-color campaign. You've made it clear that you either don't understand what you're doing...or you don't care that you're violating the consensus about what game you're playing.

 

If not, I submit that you misinterpreted the scenario then and you're misinterpreting it now. If so, I submit that you did so because of the GM, not because the scenario itself was inherently less-than-serious.

 

And I submit that you don't know what you're talking about. If a GM chooses to work out his control issues by using a bait-n-switch approach to character design, telling the players to create characters suitable for Environment/Game-Style X, then immeidately drops them into one where the characters are utterly useless and surrounded by "incompetent normals" who mysteriously have stats, skills and abilities far superior to those of the PCs...it shouldn't surprise him when the players decide to show him the same respect.

 

There are plenty of ways to run interesting, entertaining No-Win Scenarios.

 

"You can be dead, or a drooling moron. Choose now!" is not one of them.

[dbsousa]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

Nice thought' date=' but stats like that are an out-of-character mechanic. Power level as a concept is more about "things that add to cost" than "cosmic balance of how screwed the character is". Otherwise you could just give all your superheroes 700 points of Disadvantages and call it a day [/quote']

The scenario is an out of character mechanic. A wave that sweeps across the world that trashes civilization and kills everyone who is smart, or good at sports, or plays an instrument really well is a ham-handed plot device that ignores even the laws of cartoon science. This sort of scenario is acceptable to players as deep background to a world setting, but if I came to the table after spending any amount of time crafting a character and had this scenario put before me, I would not be interested in continuing the game. I might be interested in reading someone's comic book about this idea, but I wouldn't want to write it for him.

 

Has anyone expressed an interest in playing this scenario out? at your home or on this board?

[Weldun]

Re: WWYCD if a supers-eating wave swept reality?

 

While my earlier post was favorable of this thread, Robyn, I have to agree with everybody’s displeasure.

 

I liked exploring what my character would do in a situation where he had to choose between death, or life as one of the masses. But that scenario could have been described differently.

 

The problem with this scenario is that it defeats the purpose of playing a superhero campaign, by removing the super element. Yeah, we can run around creating Fallout-style vaults to preserve the past for future generations, but when all is said and done, there is no sign of reward for the players. We play these games to play larger than life characters in larger than life situations, but your scenario doesn't give any real sign of being able to continue it.

 

As for thinking outside the box... how’s this? Build a base. In game mechanics, convince as many people, super or otherwise, to invest in a base. Said base has EDM, usable by a hideous amount of mass and people (I'm thinking enough for the entire solar system, including all inhabitants, sans Sol), backwards through time, to any location. Target an empty single-star system several millions years ago, whose primary was at that time a stable GV5 star, of one solar mass. All build with one charge that takes several million years to recover. Also give the base regeneration to account for auto-repair/maintenance. I guarantee that the majority of the worlds super-geniuses would be glad to collaborate on it’s design.