Global Teleportation: How?

[tesuji]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

Gonna have to quibble this, as we already have that logic by the very existence of MP's. If X does Y for 5 points, it only costs 1 to add it to an MP (asuming it fits the AP). It also sucks up very little of a VPP. The prices have to be fair before frameworks. Frameworks offer a discount for certain mechanisms that link powers, and reduce prices for such powers more or less universally.

 

Not sure what your quibble is here then.

 

As i said, its not a policy i would generally endorse.

 

But to be clear, note i said X and then Z...

 

But lets drop the varioable and spell it out, maybe that would clear it up.

The following assumes the powers have all satisfied the "makes snese for character, campaign and reasonable FX" criteria...

 

I would not endorse a policy of...

I disallow global teleport for 5cp outside a multipower as being too cheap for itsa benefit.

I approve a just-as-useful global teleport bought by some other means as a

5 cp multipower slot. (That does imply it had a significantly higher AP cost than the former BTW.)

 

A good example would be not allowing:

1" teleport +1/4 scalable to 1 KM, up to 1"=10000km = 5 ap/cp for a character with say teleportation as his primary power.

 

But being fine with:

10" teleport +1/4 scalable to 1 km, up to 1" = 1000km = 45 ap = 4 Cp in multipower slot for a similar character.

 

This would not be a decision i would normally make. If the second is fine, the first is too, in general, and both will get similar benefit more or less out of it.

 

Additionally, i never endorsed the notion of "with megamovement you wind up somewhere in the hex, the megascale hex" because I always thought that ridiculous. I know of prqatically no supermovement power in source that inaccurate and it always seemed just a way for a Gm to handwave in something to cripple a megascale power he thought too cheap.

 

From what i have seen, Gms would be fine with pulling that stunt on the 1" teleport listed above, citing the 10000km hex, but since they think the second is properly priuced, wont stick him with "within 1000 km".

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

I would not endorse a policy of...

I disallow global teleport for 5cp outside a multipower as being too cheap for itsa benefit.

I approve a just-as-useful global teleport bought by some other means as a

5 cp multipower slot. (That does imply it had a significantly higher AP cost than the former BTW.)

 

A good example would be not allowing:

1" teleport +1/4 scalable to 1 KM, up to 1"=10000km = 5 ap/cp for a character with say teleportation as his primary power.

 

But being fine with:

10" teleport +1/4 scalable to 1 km, up to 1" = 1000km = 45 ap = 4 Cp in multipower slot for a similar character.

 

You would not allow a character to buy a 4d6 HKA for 10 points (I assume). Can he have it for 6 in a Multipower with a 12d6 Eneregy Blast? Your logic above seems to say no, which would shut out the attacks multipower. [NOTE: I select HKA because you could not have MPA'd the HKA with the EB, so they are already mutually exclusive.]

 

Additionally, i never endorsed the notion of "with megamovement you wind up somewhere in the hex, the megascale hex" because I always thought that ridiculous. I know of prqatically no supermovement power in source that inaccurate and it always seemed just a way for a Gm to handwave in something to cripple a megascale power he thought too cheap.

 

From what i have seen, Gms would be fine with pulling that stunt on the 1" teleport listed above, citing the 10000km hex, but since they think the second is properly priced, wont stick him with "within 1000 km".

 

Funny...I would have thought "a way for a Gm to handwave in something to cripple a megascale power he thought too cheap" described the enhanced senses requirement just as well.

 

Given your belief that pretty much all high end MS Megascale requires Scalable, I don't really see the problem. 10" Scalable 1,000 km gets me within 1,000 km. Scale down to 100 km, and I'm within 100 km. Scale to 10 KM, then 1 km, then 100 and I'm now in combat movement distance, I suspect. An extra 12 seconds to get there wil precision seems unlikely to spell disaster - especially in the noncombat situations Megascale is generally useful for. Although for a character who specifically knows where he's going, I'd be inclined to allow more precision. But then, I'd also waive the enhanced sense for such a character.

[tesuji]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

 

You would not allow a character to buy a 4d6 HKA for 10 points (I assume). Can he have it for 6 in a Multipower with a 12d6 Eneregy Blast? Your logic above seems to say no, which would shut out the attacks multipower. [NOTE: I select HKA because you could not have MPA'd the HKA with the EB, so they are already mutually exclusive.]

you are going backward from my logic not forward. IF I allow the MP slot, then i will allow the power to be bought at the lower cost by a similar character.

 

If i allow one character to buy the two attacks in a multipower, then I have no problem allowing another character to buy two similar attacks for the same cost. In this case, that looks like 72 cp total, assuming they have the same effects and limitations.

 

this translates to "the same effects cost the same amount regardless of how its arranged on the sheets." If its working just like a 60 pt Mp with two slots, I don't really see charging the character 120 cp for it.

 

 

 

 

Funny...I would have thought "a way for a Gm to handwave in something to cripple a megascale power he thought too cheap" described the enhanced senses requirement just as well.

hardly, just a get what you pay for thing". Like if you buy FTL without life support? It doesn't do you all that much good. Like buying 6d6 ego blast without any kind of decent ECV.

 

the difference is, you CAN buy the second component, while with megascale, the "miss by a Km" is pretty much serious either way you cut it.

 

Given your belief that pretty much all high end MS Megascale requires Scalable, I don't really see the problem. 10" Scalable 1,000 km gets me within 1,000 km. Scale down to 100 km, and I'm within 100 km. Scale to 10 KM, then 1 km, then 100 and I'm now in combat movement distance, I suspect. An extra 12 seconds to get there wil precision seems unlikely to spell disaster - especially in the noncombat situations Megascale is generally useful for. Although for a character who specifically knows where he's going, I'd be inclined to allow more precision. But then, I'd also waive the enhanced sense for such a character.

I believe the scale down stops at 1"=1km. Again, i don't know of many source material movements that are that inaccurate. So i don't see a driving push to add that to the existing rules.

 

I mean, i known of few character who when travelling a kilometer east have as much chance of travelling a km north or south.

 

but clearly, for some, thats preferable.

 

Me, i would rather have the senses where they can auctually purchase the senses to get rid of the problem. or if rewriting the rules entirely make it an adder to the base move, not a separate power advantage.

 

YMMV.

 

as for my belief... i believe that to be effective high end megascale requires either scalability OR appropriate senses.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

If we were talking about running or flight, the 'rapid' adder would be all that's required, no? It's not that the character really needs to see any farther, just that he needs to be able to see it faster.

 

Can we not apply the same type of logic here somehow? A 'Teleport Senses' adder onto Teleport?

 

Personally I would just buy the Clairsentience, as it's a cool SFX to teleport your senses around, and it's a useful power in many situations.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

Rapid sense does NOT increase a character's reaction ability. It only allows him to absorb incoming data quicker than normal.

 

Seeing farther is the best way to avoid to avoid hitting obstacles with normal 'medium of travel defined' movement abilities when used non-combat (flight, running, swimming) where the power defines the medium.

 

Teleport the power as defined by HERO rules does not have a default 'medium' or mode of movement. It is defined by the special effect. Take the classic speedster Flash. In HERO terms he can be built using Running, Flight (only on surface) AND Teleportation (must cross interviening space) with safe blind teleport. No reason the T-port can't be bought with megascale just like the Running or Flight. The 'Safe Blind' part allows him to avoid obstacles at mega-distance but does not give him any extra targeting bonus. He could go from New York to Paris in 1 mega-jump but he might not end up at the base of the Eifel Tower.

 

IF the sfx is the Gate Teleporter like Warp from classic New Teen Titans or Herald/Gabriel from the Animated series then Clairsentience is the way to go since they both literally open a window/door that they can look before they leap.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

IF the sfx is the Gate Teleporter like Warp from classic New Teen Titans or Herald/Gabriel from the Animated series then Clairsentience is the way to go since they both literally open a window/door that they can look before they leap.

Well, if it's a literal Gate, then the attack roll should be made to open the thing, not each time someone steps through. So maybe Clairsentience isn't needed in a lot of those cases either. (I'm not familiar with the series of which you speak, so I'm not arguing that specific point.)

[radioKAOS]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

Rapid sense does NOT increase a character's reaction ability. It only allows him to absorb incoming data quicker than normal.

 

Um, yeah... extra DEX or SPD would allow a character to react quicker, not any sense.

 

My point is that I can already see FAR enough [which is all that megascale adds to, the distance I can see] to avoid running into anything, but at super speeds my need would be to process that visual information more quickly, hence the rapid adder. Being able to see across the Atlantic is not going to help me avoid traffic in lower Manhattan.

 

And yes I realize that I differ from the 'book' [5ER p264] on this, but IMO that ruling makes no sense [no pun intended].

 

Seeing farther is the best way to avoid to avoid hitting obstacles with normal 'medium of travel defined' movement abilities when used non-combat (flight' date=' running, swimming) where the power defines the medium.[/quote']

 

I totally disagree. Try running while only looking through binoculars.

 

Teleport the power as defined by HERO rules does not have a default 'medium' or mode of movement. It is defined by the special effect. Take the classic speedster Flash. In HERO terms he can be built using Running' date=' Flight (only on surface) AND Teleportation (must cross interviening space) with safe blind teleport. No reason the T-port can't be bought with megascale just like the Running or Flight. The 'Safe Blind' part allows him to avoid obstacles at mega-distance but does not give him any extra targeting bonus. He could go from New York to Paris in 1 mega-jump but he might not end up at the base of the Eifel Tower.[/quote']

 

Um, sure, but in this argument we are looking to be able to end up wherever the character wants - in your example we want to be able to teleport directly to the base of the Tower, as someone with running would be able to do [end up at the base of the Tower that is]. Not teleport all over before finding the proper location - hence the need/thought for some sort of sense.

 

My thought was as an adder, seeing the appropriateness of the rapid adder.

 

IF the sfx is the Gate Teleporter like Warp from classic New Teen Titans or Herald/Gabriel from the Animated series then Clairsentience is the way to go since they both literally open a window/door that they can look before they leap.

 

Well at least we agree on one thing, Clairsentience is a viable option, as I agreed to in my first post to this thread.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Global Teleportation: How?

 

I believe the scale down stops at 1"=1km.

 

This depends on the interpretation. The rules indicate +1/4 MS is anything up to 1" = 1 km, and could be used for a lower amount. Variable Advantage would be superior to allow you to change the base at the +1/4 level, however.

 

as for my belief... i believe that to be effective high end megascale requires either scalability OR appropriate senses.

 

Sums up the crux of our difference of opinion quite nicely.