Elemental Control Variant

[Rkane_1]

The standard Elemental Control Power has issues in my estimation. I know many defend it but I find it troublesome and too many odd builds with it. This is an idea I have, so please hear me out.

 

 

 

One of my problems stem from the fact smaller powers who may not match the exact points cost of the biggest power in the EC are not benefitted as much unless they are bought up to the level of the biggest power. Slowly developing powers are very hard for players who want to develop them slowly as you cannot really put a small amount of points in them unless they are outside the EC, where they gain no benefit for fitting a closely themed set of powers OR they wait til they get up to the appropriate points dedicated to them and suddenly become much more powerful. I would prefer the character can slowly build the power and learn to harness his powers gradually. As it stands, putting a power in an EC is often an "all or nothing" proposition.

 

My second problem is the no non-Endurance using powers in the EC. It makes sense to me that an Ice Using Character should be able to place Armor in an EC. But with this restriction, he cannot.

 

 

My third problem is, and I know there a lot out there who will say "Well, thats why its called a Power Framework and not a Power Limitation" but I believe the Framework provides a little too much "umph" point for point without asking much back from the player. I believe also that being elementally tied to something like a set of powers means that certain Disadvantages should be chosen such as a Cold based character having a vulnerability to Fire or such.

 

 

Elemental Control Variant:The character who wants Elemental Control must place a number of points into it a Core Cost equal to the Active Cost of any power that is part of it and then apply a -1 Limitation to this. This gains a -1 Modifier to any powers under it. Any Limitations that affect the entire Elemental Control can also be added to the -1 Limitation on the Core Cost.

This way, low cost powers may fit underneath it and powers the character is just starting to develop don’t have to be an “All or nothing†proposition but can be slowly grown. Any Limitations that affect the entire Elemental Control can also be added to the -1 Limitation on the Core Cost.

 

Also, the character may place in the EC any Power which the GM feels is appropriate whterh they cost Endutrance or not.

 

 

Finally, characters must take as part of their Disadvantages a number of Disadvantages equal to the Real Cost of the Core Cost of the Elemental Control that directly link to their Elemental "Focus". They do not take any less or more points from the Disadvantages, but are required to take certain ones that fit the mold.

 

 

For an example: I have a Cold-Based Character that shoots Ice from his finger tips. I want to be able to make Ice Armor and Ice Bolts and Ice Spears. I need up to 60 Active Points for my biggest Power but MY GM, states it only makes sense that Ice should stop so much damage so he limits my Armor to 5 PD and 5 ED. We decided that the highest Active Point power is 60 Active Cost and I set up my Core cost. 60 Active with a -1 Modifier is 30 Active Points. This means that I would need to also have 30 points worth of Disadvantages worth of Disads that related to my Ice Powers such a a Vulnerability to Fire x2 STUN and x1 1/2 BODY for a total of 30 Points worth of Disadvantages. I still get the points for the Disads but I am just required to have some "in theme" disads that make laogical sense when it comes to the powers my character has.

 

 

 

Cold Based Powers, all slots Elemental Control Mod (-1)

Core Cost (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 30 points

---------

SnowBalls-Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 30 pts

Ice Spear-Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points); ECMod (-1) - 30 pts

Ice Wall-Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 30 pts

Ice Armor-Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 7pts

Ice Ramps-Flight 10" (20 Active Points); EC Mod (-1); Physical Manifestation (-1/4) - 9 pts

---------------------

Total Cost = 136 pts.

 

 

Since the Core cost Real cost is 30pts, I bought Vulnerability to Fire x2 STUN and x1 1/2 BODY which is 30 points.

 

Now lets take a look at taking a further disadvantage on the Whole EC of Limited Power:Not in Arid conditions of temoperatures over 100 degrees for a -1/4 limitation and also Requires Skill Roll:Ice Powers skill

 

 

 

Cold Based Powers, all slots Elemental Control Mod (-1)

Core Cost (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) ; Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not in Arid conditions or temperatures over 100 degrees (-1/4) - 22 points

---------

SnowBalls-Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 22 pts

Ice Spear-Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points); ECMod (-1) - 22 pts

Ice Wall-Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 22 pts

Ice Armor-Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 5 pts

Ice Ramps-Flight 10" (20 Active Points); EC Mod (-1); Physical Manifestation (-1/4) - 7 pts

---------------------

 

Total Cost = 100 pts.

 

 

 

Now since the Real Cost of the Core Cost is 22points, I could find something a little less than another Vulnerability to Fire on the body side, but I keep the x2 Stun for 20 Points. I also take Distinctive features:Bluish Skin and cold to the touch for 5 points. My GM feels that this works as it fits with my EC and My powers are set.

 

 

 

Now lets say that I have earned a smal amount of experience points. Lets say 3 Exp and I want to work on a Change Environement power for an ice slick. I buy it as thus under my EC.

 

Ice Slick-Change Environment 1" radius, -2 Characteristic Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic (9 Active Points); Elemental Control Mod (-1), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not in arid conditions or temperatures over 100 degrees (-1/4) - 3 pts.

 

Its small...but I will work on it and it will grow with my character.

 

 

 

Okay... let her rip. Get with the Flamage.

[Rkane_1]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

What if you posted a thread and nobody came? *pout* I guess I will put away the salsa, chips and the Sobreros.

[Stone]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Your idea is workable, although I disagree w/the disads part. It almost sounds like your combining a multipower/a elemental control. For the record, I am not a big fan of the "must cost END" rule for EC's myself.

[Rkane_1]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Let us discuss the negative ramifications of the disads info. Why would you object to it?

[gojira]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I think you basically have here 1st or 2nd edition Champions Elemental Control

 

First & largest power is full price. All power others after that cost 1/2. I agree that the disadvantage thing equal to the EC reserve seems funky.

 

The biggest problem you will have with this is players will try to cram everything they can think of into an EC, just to save points. (That's why 1st ed. got changed, iirc) And they can cram a lot. Soooo many things can be tied to a EC by a clever player. I'd put some sort of additonal limit on how many things can be added to an EC.

 

Maybe:

 

1. EC, reserve, cost X points.

2. Add any powers you like that cost 2X or more. Save X points on each of those.

3. For each power costing 2X or more, you can have one power in the control that costs less than 2X, and saves 1/2 (-1 lim).

 

That way you can have an EC with a couple of powers at "full strenght" (the 2X or more cost), and a couple more at "not quite ready yet" power. But you can't cram tons of powers just to save points, with out buying compensating slots at the higher cost.

 

* * *

 

Specifically on the END thing, what causes you problem? The whole idea is that your EC shuts off if you run out of END or get stunned. If you really need a power, just add Costs END and you are set.

 

Armor is easy to get into an EC, just use FF instead! It's cheaper!

[David Johnston]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Looks workable, but you should lose the bit about requiring people to take so many points of disadvantages per point of core cost. It complicates the explanation without adding much. The ice guys are going to take vulnerabilities to fire and so on automatically without need to be pushed by anything except their bottomless hunger for points.

 

Personally, though I just ruled that Elemental Controls could not contain enhanced senses or statistics and left it at that.

[Lucius]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I think I like this idea; of course, I never use Elemental Controls and have never especially cared for them.

 

Personally, I LIKE the idea of requiring Disadvantages to take an Elemental Control. However, I'm not sure the amount should be set by the "Real Cost" of the Elemental Control. I don't see why the amount of Disadvantages should go down because certain limitations are common to all the powers....could you explain this?

 

One thing I DON'T like about current Elemental Controls is the fact they have that automatic vulnerability to Drains etc. But one thing I DO like is that to Drain one is to Drain all. I suggest you keep that aspect.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Elemental Control: Palindromedary Powers

[Frenchman]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I like and respect what you're trying to do, I'm just not sure about how you're doing it.

 

1) I'm gonna have to jump on the "I don't like the required disad" bandwagon - for some concepts, it doesn't make sense. What do I have to take for my super-mage who has an EC defined as "Magic Powers?" Or Mr. I'm Dead Allready? I can think of more concepts that don't have easily-related vulnerability-type disadvantages associated with them than I can those that do.

 

2) Using a -1 Limitation value rather than halving the cost strongly encourages powers built without limitations, and somewhat discourages powers built with them. In a by-the-book EC, -1 of limitations will save you 25% of the powers cost, and -2 will save you 33%. Your way a -1 saves only 17% and -2 saves 25% - thus making certain power builds/character concepts more expensive.

 

3) All-in-all, for many characters your mechanic is essentially: Pay 1/2 the active cost of your highest AP power, and you get to save 50% of the real points on all your powers! Thats an amazing deal, and encourages characters to buy lots of powers they wouldn't have otherwise.

 

Personally, I think Gojira's version is a lot more workable, especially if you use a 1/2 cost instead of a -1 limitation.

 

Another way may be to increase the 'buy-in' cost of the EC to the full AP value of whatever's in it, and then eliminate the lower limite of benefit. Then Snowball would look like this:

 

60 EC: Cold Based Powers

---------

30 SnowBalls-Energy Blast 12d6

30 Ice Spear-Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6

30 Ice Wall-Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF

7 Ice Armor-Armor (5 PD/5 ED)

8 Ice Ramps-Flight 10" (20 Active Points); Physical Manifestation (-1/4)

---------------------

Total Cost = 165 pts

 

or

 

34 EC: Cold Based Powers Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not in Arid conditions or temperatures over 100 degrees (-1/4)

---------

17 SnowBalls-Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); Common Mods (-3/4)

17 Ice Spear-Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points); Common Mods (-3/4)

17 Ice Wall-Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF (60 Active Points); Common Mods (-3/4)

4 Ice Armor-Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); Common Mods (-3/4)

5 Ice Ramps-Flight 10" (20 Active Points); Common Mods (-3/4); Physical Manifestation (-1/4) - 7 pts

---------------------

 

Total Cost = 94 pts.

 

The higher buy-in will make it a little less likely for characters to buy whatever they want in their EC - they have fewer points to spend.

 

In all, I found the best way to manage ECs was to manage them, as in, be rather vigilant and strict about what powers could fit into an ECs 'schtick,' and making sure that they didn't have one that was too broad. Fire-man is OK, Magic-Man is too broad (what can't fit in there?).

 

Edit: Lucius pointed out my contradiction with the Magic sFX of an EC - It'll happen at 2 AM.

[Lucius]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I like and respect what you're trying to do, I'm just not sure about how you're doing it.

 

1) I'm gonna have to jump on the "I don't like the required disad" bandwagon - for some concepts, it doesn't make sense. What do I have to take for my super-mage who has an EC defined as "Magic Powers?" Or Mr. I'm Dead Allready? I can think of more concepts that don't have easily-related vulnerability-type disadvantages associated with them than I can those that do.

 

.

 

Well, you yourself point out that "magic" is a poor choice for Elemental Control and should probably be disallowed.

 

As for Mr. Dead, the disads are obvious: there'd be a big Social Limitation:Dead for example. Can't own property, can't vote or be employed or really exercise any rights except the right to be left peacefully in your grave - and if you deliberately forfeit that by getting up and walking around, well....

 

Possibly a Susceptibility or Vulnerability to "holy" things.

 

Distinctive Features: Walking corpse. Even if it's not obvious, close observation would reveal you're not breathing, and that makes people nervous...

 

The thing that puzzles me is that these aren't obvious to you. I barely had to think to come up with these. What other concepts do you think lack obvious Disads?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that Lucius is trying to think up Disads for a Ranger character now.....

[tesuji]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Let me say, i REALLY like the requirement to have disads be proportional and linked to the SFv of the EC.

 

First, it answers in part the "why wouldn't a clever player put everything into his EC" as the growing price of disads is a cap of sorts.

 

Second, it does put the "other shoe" onto the "save points for thematic" in that you have to not only take the GOOD parts, the benefits from your theme (point saving on themed powers) but also have to take the bad parts too (the obvious and reasonable disadvantages related to it.) I disagree with the poster who says ice boy will take the vulnerability to fire as a matter of course, as i have seen plenty of character writeen without their "obvious" vulnerabilities or susc... and even ones who go counter-intuitive like the fire guy who is vulnerable to fire.

 

I would strongly consider making the required disads equal to your core cost PLES 5 cp per power put under the EC or maybe per X ap or something.

 

I also disrgard the "end cost" requirement for ECs fairly routinely.

 

As for the -1 vs the usual EC accounting? it really doesn't grab me but its not seriously something i oppose either.

 

All in all tho, i do really like the disads thing and if i ever run hero, i will swipe this notion from you.

[gojira]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I dunno.

 

Requiring disads seems to infringe on the player's character concept too much. What wrong with a weather controller who has all of her disads in social and phsycological catagory? What's wrong with an energy controller who's vulnerabilites have nothing to do with his EC?

 

There's nothing wrong with a GM looking at a player's character sheet and saying "Dude, these disads suck!" but as long as the player has a cool list of disads, why restrict what they can take?

 

Just my two pennies.

 

 

*puts on a sombero*

 

*munches on some chips*

[sbarron]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

What's wrong with an energy controller who's vulnerabilites have nothing to do with his EC?

There is nothing wrong with it. And the character doesn't have to take an EC if they don't want to.

[David Johnston]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Let me say, i REALLY like the requirement to have disads be proportional and linked to the SFv of the EC.

 

First, it answers in part the "why wouldn't a clever player put everything into his EC" as the growing price of disads is a cap of sorts.

 

Second, it does put the "other shoe" onto the "save points for thematic" in that you have to not only take the GOOD parts, the benefits from your theme (point saving on themed powers) but also have to take the bad parts too (the obvious and reasonable disadvantages related to it.) I disagree with the poster who says ice boy will take the vulnerability to fire as a matter of course, as i have seen plenty of character writeen without their "obvious" vulnerabilities or susc... and even ones who go counter-intuitive like the fire guy who is vulnerable to fire.

 

But the fire user who is vulnerable to fire would qualify. He too has taken a disadvantage that grows out of his element just as Killer Frost and her vulnerability to cold. And so would the air user who has no susceptibilities or vulnerabilities, but is a claustrophobe. Actually, though thinking about it, this approach would be unsuitable for very high power level campaigns.

[tesuji]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

 

Requiring disads seems to infringe on the player's character concept too much.

If the character concept is going to include "my powers have a theme" so much so that he wants s discount for "my powers have a theme" i don't think its "me" the GM infringing on his concept to insist "the bad elements of the theme are required too".

 

The player makes the choice to decalre his be a themed character, not the GM.

What wrong with a weather controller who has all of her disads in social and phsycological catagory?

Nothing but if she doesn't take the negative components of her "weather witch" theme along with the positive discount, she shouldn't take the EC

 

and BTW, psych disads can still be thematic, like say "mood swings dependent on prevailing weather patterns: infrequent/strong for a weather witch whose mood and emotions vary by mother nature's whims. rain = lethagic/lazy, violent strms = angry, bright sunny day = happy, spring breezy = aroused, etc.

 

Its not just vuln and susc, but distinctive features, sometimes psych lims etc.

What's wrong with an energy controller who's vulnerabilites have nothing to do with his EC?

He can certainly have those, but if he takes an EC, links his powers to a theme and thus wants a point back, he must also take the negative elements of the theme along with the good.

There's nothing wrong with a GM looking at a player's character sheet and saying "Dude, these disads suck!" but as long as the player has a cool list of disads, why restrict what they can take?

i don't think anyone is saying so no to a cool list of disads but rather "as part of your cool list of disads, also follow your themes". it isn't either/or, this cool vs themed. you can have both.,

[Frenchman]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Well, you yourself point out that "magic" is a poor choice for Elemental Control and should probably be disallowed.

 

As for Mr. Dead, the disads are obvious: there'd be a big Social Limitation:Dead for example. Can't own property, can't vote or be employed or really exercise any rights except the right to be left peacefully in your grave - and if you deliberately forfeit that by getting up and walking around, well....

 

Possibly a Susceptibility or Vulnerability to "holy" things.

 

Distinctive Features: Walking corpse. Even if it's not obvious, close observation would reveal you're not breathing, and that makes people nervous...

 

The thing that puzzles me is that these aren't obvious to you. I barely had to think to come up with these. What other concepts do you think lack obvious Disads?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that Lucius is trying to think up Disads for a Ranger character now.....

 

You're right, and those did occur to me, but they don't seem to be obvious/neccessary to the concept - while most 'good' characters who have a well-developed concept and background will have disads directly relating to their powers, not all will.

Take Wolverine - his disads don't stem from his powers, instead his disads and his powers share a common source (depending on which version you're looking at, I've only seen the movies and the Ultimates within the past ten years). I don't think it would be unreasonable at all for Wolverine to be built with an EC, but both the 'official' way and this variant way wouldn't let him use one, either because many of his powers don't cost end (regen, mental defense and adamant bones) or because he doesn't have 'enough' disads stemming from his power.

 

I can hear you going, "Ah-HA! What about his Amnesia and Psychopathic Tendancies?"

Well, I consider those to be the wonderful side effects of how the adamant was applied to his bones, but I will grant you that he could define his EC disads as such - but that's where another qualm of mine comes up.

 

If you're going to require disads, but not require a certain kind, why require them at all? All characters, EC or not, are going to have disads which relate to their EC at least as much as Amnesia relates to Regeneration. And since I've only once seen a character not take the full amount of disads allowed (he was 5 points short and I wouldn't give him points for "Distinctive Features: Slayer T-Shirt" or something silly) then I can't think of a character who is going to be affected by this requirement anyhow. It seems fairly pointless, inneffectual, and it feels 'un-HERO' to me.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

If the character concept is going to include "my powers have a theme" so much so that he wants s discount for "my powers have a theme" i don't think its "me" the GM infringing on his concept to insist "the bad elements of the theme are required too".

 

The player makes the choice to decalre his be a themed character, not the GM.

 

Nothing but if she doesn't take the negative components of her "weather witch" theme along with the positive discount, she shouldn't take the EC

 

What I find troubling about this line of reasoning is what it suggests about characters who lack an EC. Since taking disadvantages consistent with your character theme becomes an extra requirement of taking an EC, I guess anyone willing to forego having an EC must also be able to ignore any need to take disadvantages consistent with their theme.

 

ie if taking disad's consistent with your theme is a cost of having an EC, then characters choosing not to have an EC must be able to avoid that cost.

[Frenchman]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

ie if taking disad's consistent with your theme is a cost of having an EC' date=' then characters choosing not to have an EC must be able to avoid that cost.[/quote']

A much simpler and more elegant way of saying what I said. Too bad it won't let me rep you anymore.

[tesuji]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

So, if i read this right...

 

for some requiring disads linked to the EC theme is too restrictive of chargen and character concept and creativity and all that jazz.

 

For others, only requiring it for EC guys is too lenient on everyone else.

 

the joys of internet discussion..

 

YES, the non-EC guys would not have to take disads related directly to their POWERS theme or rather te subset of their powers that go into an EC.

 

For example; Alien Agent guy who comes complete with personal "race related power" and super-tech gadgets but no EC would have no requirement to take any ALIEN RACE related disads. his could all be social or whatever he likes, within the usual bounds of reason the Gm imposes.

 

On the other hand, ALIEN AGENT GUY who took his alien race as an EC would be required to take some of his disads as specifically related to his EC theme of being of an alien race.

 

A spider guy who doesn't use an EC could have all his disad, again within th GM reason, tied up in psyche lims due to his being a teenager in angst, hunteds, girlfriends and so forth. Not a single "spider" disad is required.

 

The spider guy who lumps his stuff into an EC would be required to have some of his disads be closely related to his specific powers, ones that would, as an acid test, likely be inappropriate for a totally different power suite SFX like say "these would not make sense or be obvious for s fire guy"

 

How liberal the Gm is with "closely related to powers" is as all permissions items are, up for personal taste. but its clearly not limited to vuln and susc, but could IMO reasonably include distinctive features, some psyche/enraged, accidental changes and the like depending on SFX.

[Rkane_1]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I like and respect what you're trying to do, I'm just not sure about how you're doing it.

 

1) I'm gonna have to jump on the "I don't like the required disad" bandwagon - for some concepts, it doesn't make sense. What do I have to take for my super-mage who has an EC defined as "Magic Powers?" Or Mr. I'm Dead Allready? I can think of more concepts that don't have easily-related vulnerability-type disadvantages associated with them than I can those that do.

 

Well, remember the required number of Disads that tie to the Elemental Control are REDUCED if you put motre Limitations on the EC as a whole. By adding things like Incatations or Gestures easily make the amount of points needed lower. As for a mage...how about a slight 5 point disad for being a magickal beings, what about Weirdness Magnet? What about some Hunteds by people who aren't so hip on Mages like a secret government agency. Something in theme with the Elemnet the character has taken. For Mutants they can take a quick few points for 5 point Disad, Watched by Governemtn agency or Hunted by Genocide as that is "in theme" for those with mutant powers. The more Limitations you have on it, the fewer Disadvantages are required.

 

2) Using a -1 Limitation value rather than halving the cost strongly encourages powers built without limitations, and somewhat discourages powers built with them. In a by-the-book EC, -1 of limitations will save you 25% of the powers cost, and -2 will save you 33%. Your way a -1 saves only 17% and -2 saves 25% - thus making certain power builds/character concepts more expensive.

 

Would you be so kind as to provide an example without using the current EC structure but JUST buying the powers out of this variant then the powers IN this variant to show how it could cost more, please? It will wind up being a tad more expensive than the current EC but I believe the Current EC structure is too cheap AND doesn't provide for powers smaller than the total power of the main cost. This does.

 

I will respond to more of this post in a minute but thank you very much for your input on the thread.

[David Johnston]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Doesn't seem to me that Wolverine has an elemental control in the first place. His powers are regeneration, enhanced sense of smell, and claws. Where's the element there? Given that the claws are metal, you can't even go with a nature powers special effect.

[Frenchman]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

Would you be so kind as to provide an example without using the current EC structure but JUST buying the powers out of this variant then the powers IN this variant to show how it could cost more' date=' please? It will wind up being a tad more expensive than the current EC but I believe the Current EC structure is too cheap AND doesn't provide for powers smaller than the total power of the main cost. This does.[/quote']

I did - I cut and pasted your post and changed the costs to reflect my changes. A by the book EC would cost more than either of ours. Heres a table with costs for 1st build/2nd build.

 

Traditional Your Way "My" Way

174/100 136/100 165/94

 

The book method encourages large powers and penalizes smaller ones, while our methods either discourage or encourage limitations

 

As for the sFX of Wolverine's EC, I would say either Animalistic Regenerator (which doesn't fit the adamant bones inside of it) or Government Experiment

[Rkane_1]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

You're right, and those did occur to me, but they don't seem to be obvious/neccessary to the concept - while most 'good' characters who have a well-developed concept and background will have disads directly relating to their powers, not all will.

Take Wolverine - his disads don't stem from his powers, instead his disads and his powers share a common source (depending on which version you're looking at, I've only seen the movies and the Ultimates within the past ten years). I don't think it would be unreasonable at all for Wolverine to be built with an EC, but both the 'official' way and this variant way wouldn't let him use one, either because many of his powers don't cost end (regen, mental defense and adamant bones) or because he doesn't have 'enough' disads stemming from his power.

 

I can hear you going, "Ah-HA! What about his Amnesia and Psychopathic Tendancies?"

Well, I consider those to be the wonderful side effects of how the adamant was applied to his bones, but I will grant you that he could define his EC disads as such - but that's where another qualm of mine comes up.

 

If you're going to require disads, but not require a certain kind, why require them at all? All characters, EC or not, are going to have disads which relate to their EC at least as much as Amnesia relates to Regeneration. And since I've only once seen a character not take the full amount of disads allowed (he was 5 points short and I wouldn't give him points for "Distinctive Features: Slayer T-Shirt" or something silly) then I can't think of a character who is going to be affected by this requirement anyhow. It seems fairly pointless, inneffectual, and it feels 'un-HERO' to me.

 

Actually, I would consider the Amnesia and Psychopathic tenadancies just a part of his personality....that and patrt of the personality of half the people I play RPG's with. *smile*

 

In any event, Wolverin'e Elemental Disads for Regen/Adamantium Skeleton:

 

Distinctive Features: Mutant (Easily Concealed; Extreme Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses) - 5 Pts

 

Social Limitation: Out and Proud Mutant (Frequently, Major) - 15 Pts

 

Distinctive Features: Heals unnaturally in front of your Eyes (Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; -5 for Infrequently comes up) - 15 Pts

 

Distinctive Features: Sets off Metal Detectors (Easily Concealed; Extreme Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses) - 5 pts

 

And the most impressive set:

 

Vulnerability: 2 x BODY,STUN< and Effects, Magnetic Attacks (Uncommon) - 30 Pts

 

Thats 70 points off the bat. Easy. The distinctive Features he would encounter would clue other into thefact he had off powers and the Vulnerabilities are for having a Metal Skeleton. The mutant stuff is just gravy.

 

QED

[Frenchman]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

In response to Tetsuji:

It seems that you're saying that one alien, who has (say) energy manipulation powers and disads related to being an alien (he looks like one, and people treat him like one) should have a cost discount on his powers, while another alien, whos metemorphic powers include cellular level shapeshift (and thus any disads relating to his race would be worth zero points since he can appear to be human to virtually all tests) must pay full price? In my opinion, it amounts to giving one character free points because of which disads they took, as opposed to how many they took.

 

In any case, much of my original opposition to requiring a character to take disads was a knee-jerk reaction, but having had time to process the information I now see a more fundamental flaw in it.

 

A - Every character is going to take as many disads as they can get

B - Virtually any disad can be made to be related to their EC power, unless some kind of restriction is placed on what disads are eligible for this distinction.

C - Therefore, the overwhelmingly vast majority of characters who take an EC would not have their disadvantages affected in any way by this requirement.

D - If this rule isn't going to affect anyone, by the virtue of allready complying anyways, then why have the rule at all? Its just a waste of neurons.

[Rkane_1]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

What I find troubling about this line of reasoning is what it suggests about characters who lack an EC. Since taking disadvantages consistent with your character theme becomes an extra requirement of taking an EC, I guess anyone willing to forego having an EC must also be able to ignore any need to take disadvantages consistent with their theme.

 

ie if taking disad's consistent with your theme is a cost of having an EC, then characters choosing not to have an EC must be able to avoid that cost.

 

But then that can be one of the "cool" rather than "themed" characters. If the player wants to avoid having the themed disads for the full cost of the power, then that is his choice. If he wishes to buy into the theme, then they are required to take some sensible disads in keeping with the theme of his character. Thats all.

 

The reason I choose Real Cost is it is actually quite a small amount when compared to the total amount of CP garnered by disads. It requests of the player some commitment to a them if they are going to coose a character with an EC.

[Rkane_1]

Re: Elemental Control Variant

 

I did - I cut and pasted your post and changed the costs to reflect my changes. A by the book EC would cost more than either of ours. Heres a table with costs for 1st build/2nd build.

 

Traditional Your Way "My" Way

174/100 136/100 165/94

 

The book method encourages large powers and penalizes smaller ones, while our methods either discourage or encourage limitations

 

As for the sFX of Wolverine's EC, I would say either Animalistic Regenerator (which doesn't fit the adamant bones inside of it) or Government Experiment

 

i kind of like this. Its like taking my idea to the next level with more thought. Your experience shows....where is that damn rep button?

 

I will need to analyze this but I understand what you are saying about a bunch of little powers and the Limitation discouragement. I need to run it through an acid test or two.