Noob Combo Question: Absorb Weapons

[SladeThirteen]

first i'd like to say 'oi'. i'm a noob (to show how truly noobish i am, this was originally posted in the questions section... i'm still very noob at forums... yes, i'm a sad individual.), and need much learning; though i'm no stranger to the arts of rpg, i am very new to hero... please be gentle.

 

anyhoo, i've got a bit of a quandry here. now mind you, this may not be for my first character or nothing... though i do hope. this is more of a bit of stretching out with in the confines of a new system.

 

well, it's more like i got a really neat idea from a character i'm making for entervoid, and just wanted to see how it would work.

 

basically there are about three versions for this idea, one i've mostly sketched out but have found to be a bit (make that really) too powerful. i guess a good idea would be to give you a basic out line of the special effect first:

 

the idea i had was a character that would be a sort of master of melee... but not the usual sort. first off, she would be able to actually speak with weapons of any sort. also, she would possess the power to absorb weapons into her body, after which she could do a few tweeky things. 1) bring the weapon back out of her body and use it. 2) use the weapon to directly mod her body (if a sword was absorbed, she could use the materials to form claws and elbow spurs). 3) at the expence of the weapon, agument her form (raise stats temporally).

 

well... more or less. we (me and the guy that introduced me to the game) figured out pretty much everything for it (i won't go to much into it cause it's the third version i want some help on). one pro was that she could be attacked with any give melee weapon and instantly take it into her body (we figured out a tricked out dispel linked with a force wall as she would take no damage...), though the con was that this ability would only work for melee (any ranged, bare handed, or magical attack would still work), but that power over all was a bit much. (yeah, i know someone out there is calling munchkin on me. i won't argue... cause it is. or at least it's a power for much later in the game.)

 

the second idea was basically, but the absorbtion ability would be limited to bladed weapons.

 

the third idea i had was again the same for the most part... but with a limit on how many weapons could be stored (though whether it should be by weight, quantity, or both i'm not sure.)

 

oh, a note on the weapon speach. i still want to stick with the original idea of being able to talk to any thing that is classified as a weapon (even butterknives or anyother thing that was every use as a weapon. or at least that was one idea that i had). coupling with the third idea, the character would have a greater affinity for bladed weapons (if you think of it in terms of languages, then 'blades' would be her first language, while all others would be secondary. or at least thats one way that helped me paint a clearer picture for my friend.)

 

oh great gurus of the heroic page, enlighten me with your wonderous wisedom and guide me on the path of character creation oneness. draw me out of the shadows off noobdom and into the light of the d6 of coolness...

 

...

 

...

 

or something like that.

[ghost-angel]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

What effect do you want to get from talking to weapons?

 

Trying to find out who has handled them? How many times they've killed? Ask about the weather?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

Things they did together? Some words I never understood? Yadda yadda... CRAZY GAME OF LOVE!!!

 

Now that that's out of my system. Good morning, n00bas. I am the Lord Captain Thia Halmades, and I was new here almost a year ago. Since then I've ascended, written two books and been on a world tour.

 

No. But I have gotten pretty good at this, and it is intimidating. Part one! You want to Absorb Weapons. The Absorbing bit is easy, except you aren't using the Power "Absorb," you're buying a variation on the skill "Concealment" to 'hide the weapon in your body.' Or. Hehe. This is where even I start to get my eyes crossed slightly.

 

We're going to purchase a Hand Killing Attack, or an HKA for short. The core principal behind HERO is that we take any basic power (there are around 30 or so) and by adding advantages and limitations, we refine it into precisely the state we want. That's the premise. Where you'll get lost early on is in how quickly we (the community) rattle off builds for things and then get into heated arguments about them. When I got here I didn't think I could do it at all - now I have my own thread for building HALO stuff (see Avatar). Which I need to revisit. Might do that this weekend. Where's my hat? Oh yes.

 

HKA, 1d6 1/2 (45 Active Points); Only while manifesting a contained weapon (-1/2).

 

I'm not sure - glancing at the rules - how to build the whole "pass objects in and out of your body. My first thought, honestly, is to build a Transform, "Object into Absorbed Object" - or, "You into You Holding Object" - I suppose by the rules as written you'd need to buy the more expensive, so a self-transform, only to hold weapons internally. I suppose you could call it "Human Scabbard."

 

GA is right, though - what precisely do you talk to swords about?

[ghost-angel]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

I'm not sure - glancing at the rules - how to build the whole "pass objects in and out of your body. My first thought' date=' honestly, is to build a Transform, "Object into Absorbed Object" - or, "You into You Holding Object" - I suppose by the rules as written you'd need to buy the more expensive, so a self-transform, only to hold weapons internally. I suppose you could call it "Human Scabbard."[/quote']

Not nearly so complicated. This is SFX of an attack power (or whatever the weapon adds to you).

 

If you want to pull all sorts of weapons out of your body you can go one of two ways: Just say the HKA/HA/EB/RKA is a weapon you have absorbed. Or the slightly more OCD method of Variable SFX: Limited SFX on the power.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

Since this is such an over the top "unrealistic" ability, Im going to assume that its for a supers campaign where "Equipment" isnt used; powers are paid for with Points.

 

This is a concept that is a combination of effects, and ultimately is going to run into some of the peculiarities of "weapons" in a superheroic campaign.

 

Here are the seperate things that must occur for the concept to work:

* Take no damage by being hit with a weapon.

* Disarm the attacker by "absorbing" their weapon

* Either fuel some other ability, or gain the ability to use the absorbed weapon

 

 

There are many ways to handle the "Takes No Damage" aspect. If you want to take absolutely NO DAMAGE from an attack you have three clear cut options available to you within the confines of the "official" rules. The first is Desolid, the next is Block, and the last Dodge. However a Combat Luck style ability based on Armor with the SFX of "they missed", or in this case "they hit and I absorbed their weapon" is also a more indirect option. This isnt really that big of a deal, though it can end up being an expensive power (and rightly so).

 

There are also several different ways to model the "Power Boost" you gain from "absorbing" weapons; anything from a VPP only to mimic the absorbed weapon to a MP with a variety of slots and the limitation "Only to simulate absorbed weapon", and clever use of Variable SFX are all different approaches to the same end effect. For the improvement of other abilities, thats a fairly straitforward case for the actual Absorption Power vis the damage that you would normally have taken from the incoming attack, or a triggered Self Only Aid.

 

The "Take Away Their Weapon" aspect is really the problem for modeling the effect that you want, because in a superheroic campaign things with the SFX of "weapon" can be built in many different ways, many of which explicity cannot be taken away, or at least not in combat.

 

For instance a Thor like character might carry a Hammer, but it may not be defined as OAF: Hammer; it may just be part of the SFX of their Hero ID or it might be an OIF which can't be taken away in combat, or it might be merely restrainable, or it may not have any limitations upon it at all.

 

Similarly a Wolverine like character might have claws, but depending on how they are defined mechanically, you may not be able to take the weapon away from them.

 

And so on. This is really the critical problem with this character concept -- it is attempting to target a category of things that does not really exist as such in a superhero campaign and will almost certainly tread upon the concepts of other characters.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

The "Talking to Weapons" ancillary ability is just a form of psychometry, which is usually handled as a Postcognitive Clairsentience.

[radioKAOS]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

Through quite the expensive variant... it makes me think of a Transfer damage shield vs. weapons only... Since the damage shield is applied before the attacker's damage, assuming you had enough dice, the attack would be transferred [in this case the SFX is 'absorbed'] to an HKA or HtH with limits on having to have transfered first...

[radioKAOS]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

The "Talking to Weapons" ancillary ability is just a form of psychometry' date=' which is usually handled as a Postcognitive Clairsentience.[/quote']

 

Seconded, of course.

[gojira]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

Welcome Valkyrie...er, SladeThirteen!

 

Killer Shrike brings up a good point. What genre are you playing? And how many points?

 

It matters because things work slightly differently in different campaigns. A low power (100 points or so), Pulp campaign with lots of detectives and the most power weapon being a .38 would really work very differently than a four color superhero campaign (350 points or more).

 

In the former, your character would be truly bizarre, a freak of nature, and probably have a very restricted social background as a result. In the four color campaigns, your character would probably fit right in, at least with the heroes, if not the rest of the campaigns world.

 

 

Assuming, like Killer Shrike does, that your character is a high powered, anime or four-color type campaigns, here are some of my thoughts.

 

I might be tempted to build this as a type of Elemental Control. All the powers are linked pretty strongly to a common concept (weapon absorption), so I think it qualifies.

 

I think you should start with a 20 - 30 point reserve, then hang most of your powers from that.

 

For example,

25 Weapon Absorption (Elemental Control)

25 Durability of Damascus Steel (Force Field 25 PD, 25 ED)

25 Sharpness of a Kantana ( 3d6+1 Hand Killing Attack)

25 That Frisbee Thing Zeena Throws (25" Flight)

25 Throw Your Sword At 'Em (10d6 Energy Blast, vs. PD)

 

Etc. Or whatever feels good. Then apply various modifiers to make it feel like it's a weapon you have absorbed. This could be simple charges (not really a good idea for defensive powers like Force Field), or it could be a continuing fuel charge (better, lasts longer), to something like an IIF of opportunity (a weapon you have absorbed). Recoverable charges might work (recovers when you absorb a new weapon). Even an Activation roll works, and relieves you of the need to actually track weapons. Just roll, if the roll doesn't work, then you are locked out of the power until you can absorb a weapon (I think there are rules for Lock-Out).

 

All of these force some mechanic on you, so it's up to you to pick the one(s) that make it feel most like your character absorbing a weapon. You could also just use a custom limitation (Must absorb weapons for EC to work), which basically puts you at the mercy of the GM for how it works. You can hash out with him the details, and he'll help you pick the appropriate value for the custom limitation.

 

 

To make yourself stronger as you use up a weapon, you can go with Stats, like +STR, +CON, +DEX, +SPD, +PD etc, which will temporarily add to you toughness and also add to any Hand-To-Hand attacks you buy. You could even add a level or two of Growth just to make it cool.

 

 

Last but not least, of all your ideas, #3 ("with a limit on how many weapons could be stored") sounds the best. It's easier for the GM to control, and if you can for example 10 weapons to store max, then that's also easy to model. Ten weapons is ten continuing fuel charges (for example) which recover when you absorb a new weapon. Easy!

[zornwil]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

If this is always to grab a weapon and keep it, I would say just go with Telekinesis, for that part of the power. Once grabbed and held, I would have a Naked Advantage for Variable SFX, check out those abilities in the book. Build the Naked Advantage to cover the highest power level of a weapon that you want. To put it inside the body and turn it into something that can't be taken away, a Naked Advantage at the same level of the Variable SFX but instead for Inherent. I think this might do it - ?

 

Here's a rather esoteric idea many GMs might not want to do so be warned...but you could take "Class of Minds: Inanimate Weapons" with some basic mental abilities such as Mind Control, Summon, and so on, if the GM is willing to deal with weapons as sentient. Might be really interesting! It also gives the GM lots of plot opportunities.

[SladeThirteen]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

thanks guys.

 

as far as the game goes, i was told to make a character with 75-75-50 (base points-disadds-exp)... basically i'm joining a game inprog. the good news is that i brought the idea past the gm, and he loved the idea. we had to scale back a bit on a lot of it though, but i was expecting that. it was actually kinda scary... yeasterday, when i brought up the idea, the guy that introduced me to hero (i wonder if he goes by the nick 'frenchman' here or by 'master of yoda'? i forgot to ask him.) and the gm flew with it... i mean, they went more indeepth then i was expecting (as in the discution between the two... i kinda sat on the side lines while rp jargon flew about like wind in a storm).

 

the good news is that not only did we get the character built (for the most part), but that they even added an extra power: 'skin of blades'... basically a killing attack/force field where i form blades over my skin as a sort of 'offencive defence'... the kicker is that i had an idea for this but never mentioned it to anyone... i didn't think it would work without a lot of points... but they were able to put most of the powers as a multipower setup.

 

the trouble still is the absorb thing...

 

but moore on that later. i gotta get to work... damn! be back later.

[gojira]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

... (i wonder if he goes by the nick 'frenchman' here or by 'master of yoda'? i forgot to ask him.) ....

 

Frenchman has been an enthusiastic member of our little community for some time now. Cool guy. I'm glad to see he's been able to scare up some Hero games with his pals.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo... lets try that agian

 

See? Told you that sucking a weapon into your body would be a pain. That's almost a Steve level question, but honestly, I don't see how you do it without a Transform, either Transforming the Weapon Itself or Yourself. I would think that you're transforming the Weapon into Absorbed Weapon (Reverse - Pulling the Weapon Back Out).

 

Hmm. Elegant, and fairly cheap (since transforming the weapon is going to be fairly cheap).

[Steve Long]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo

 

Since this isn't a rules question but a "how to" and request for advice/suggestions, I've moved it to the Discussion board so anyone can answer. What do you think, Herodom Assembled?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Noob Combo Question: Absorb Weapons

 

I don't think the absorbtion will necessarily come cheap. As indicated by RadioKAOS if it is to be anything that touches the character then damage shield is the way to go and that is an expensive path.

 

If it can be something that the character has to concentrate to do then you might want to use Transfer - you will be transferring points from their focus based KA to a non-focus based hand killing attack.

 

This will probably mean that your killing attack will be weaker than the one you took from them - though you could buy HKA only to add to transferred killing attacks.

 

Limitations might involve something along the lines of all or nothing - you either absorb it all or not at all.

 

You might also want to think about how the points fade - possibly a delay then all of them go at once.

 

Definitely expensive done this way.

 

 

Doc

[Killer Shrike]

Re: a noob with a question. a dangerous combo

 

Since this isn't a rules question but a "how to" and request for advice/suggestions' date=' I've moved it to the Discussion board so anyone can answer. What do you think, Herodom Assembled?[/quote']

 

MODERATOR NOTE: The poster had already double posted this to both forums; I've merged the two threads.

[SladeThirteen]

Re: Noob Combo Question: Absorb Weapons

 

i was going to post that we did sorta figured out the absorb thing yesterday, but i had to jam out the door for work (missed the damn bus and somehow ended up an hour late... *sigh*)

 

anyhoo, what we figured on is a bit of a tweaked out dispel... lets see here...

 

"dispel hand killing attacks 15d6, reduced endurance (1/2 end; +1/4), trigger (activating the trigger is an action that takes no time, trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, character does not control activation of personal trigger; when hit with a bladed weapon; +3/4)(90 active points); no range (-1/2), only works against bladed weapons (-1/4), attack must do body through armor (-1/4)"

 

after the discounts, it's half price at 45... but the gm ruled that since he's done it before for more hasher (directly violent) and that he really like the idea (and i guess since i'm new... *shrugs* i'm only guessing on this one) he put a cost multiplier on it (0.333 cost) so in the end it's 15... i was willing to lose some of my other abilities instead, but he was okay with it... *shrugs again*. i mean, granted, i would have had to shave of 30 points on my character else where, but i guess if gm says, it goes.

 

shrike, i did try to put together that 'combat luck' deal... came out five point more expensive then the dispel without the generosity of the gm (45 vs 50)... but thanks for rasing my awareness about that, i snaged a bit of it just for added protection (my character only has 10 body and little armor after that, though she is dex heavy. actually the funny thing is i had most of my character stat-ed out before they ran with the power deal, it was a kick to see them worry about whether or not i'd have anything but the powers i got... hehe, frenchy and the gm were like 'well we got the powers figured out now, but you won't be any good at anything else like using your swords'... that's when i pointed out that the first 100 points of my character was already spent. i just got rid of one low cost thing, something i could by back within the next couple of sessions, and got the combat luck.)

 

the thing that really suprised me was the other powers they cooked up:

 

first they set up a multipower- 37 point reserve, all slots 12 recoverable charges (recovers by absorbing weapons; +1/4)

 

then under that is the ability to augment : killing attack -hth 1 1/2d6, variable special effects (the claws and spurs thing... though i think they also set this up to be the 'unsheathing part of my power deal... if i'm reading it and remembering the conversation right... if not, i'm sure i can finagle the points needed to put it together... after all it's a part of a multipower, so buying the power itself costs less, right?)(+1/4) str min 10 (-1/2)

 

then there was the 'aid', which will be use for the stat booster... also a healing power. i guess they saw the basic healing i had already got, moved it to the multipower list, pumped up from a 1d6 to a 3.

 

but the thing i got a kick out of the most was the last power they figured out. a killing attack with a damage shield plus force field... a skin of blades... i was thinking about this power, but i never mentioned it. thought it would be a bit too much... but then i didn't know about the coolness of multipower...

 

anyhoo, while most of what was mentioned we didn't use, i did help me get a better feel for the game and really helped to solidify the difference between a mechanic and an effect. this of course was the greater point of this thread... thanks a lot.

 

(though i must say, thanks a lot shrike for the post(retro)cog. frenchy and the gm mentioned it, but we had run out of time and had to go to work before they could put it in... but i wasn't sure just what they were saying, but when i got home and read your post i was like 'ahhh, i get it'. thanks again)

 

now i just have to finish writing up the backstory.

 

quick side question, any of you guys know of http://entervoid.com? i had one character already on there (aria voidcraft, sadly dead.), but i can finally add this character (slightly moded of course) to the list.

 

hey, um, how do you go about posting your character sheets here?

 

anyhoo, again, thanks guys.