Honey, where's my supersuit?

[Kevin Schultz]

So, I've got 10 points in a "development pool" that I can spend for my character, after we complete the first story in the PbeM I'm in. I was planning on having my character finally get her hands on a decently-build supersuit - kevlar weave (armor), basic utility belt (skill levels), built-in communicator (radio transmission), that sort of stuff. Obviously, I can't get a lot for 10 points, but I figure I can get the basics, especially as the GM allows for non-END powers in EC's if they've got a tight concept.

 

That being said: how reasonable is "Extra Time, (only to activate), Concentration" on a supersuit? My thought is that, as it's essentially a spandex bodysuit, it takes time to put on, so therefore this is a reasonable thing to have. It's not something you casually wear underneath clothing, and it's not high-tech enough to be simple to put on.

 

However, I'm trying to figure out what the default is for a costume, and I'm coming up blank. I know that there's the Instantaneous Transformation power, which implies that a normal superhero costume takes at least SOME time to change into. However, all the rest of the discussions I could find in the book were about costumes as genre, rather than as game mechanics.

 

So - any thoughts? My other concern is that for limitations like these, a minute is sometimes as good as an hour; that is, you either need your suit right away (in which case it doesn't matter how much time it need: you simply don't have it), or else there's no real rush (like going out on daily patrol), in which case it isn't actually a limitation. Thus, the limitation really seems to be a variation of "Limited Use" or "only activatable in the base" (both of which aure usually in the -1/2 range), rather than Extra Time (which is more around -1).

[Marketeer]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

I can definitely see extra time, only to activate being placed on skill levels ("gimme a sec while I fiddle around for the right lockpick, guys"), but only if the skill level were something broad (like say "all Int skills") and the player and GM worked out in advance that by default, as soon as you are done with the task at hand, the skill level "resets".

 

Within that constraint, a +1 or +2 to Dex, Int, or an Overall Skill Level seems appropriate.

 

For Armor, I would generally be against allowing Extra Time, Only to Activate. I would, however, consider "Only in Hero ID" on your supersuit, since most villains are not quite so craven as to take off the hero's clothes if she gets knocked out.

 

Conversely, if it were an OIF, it would be something easily removed if you were incapacitated, which precludes most suits (by genre convention if nothing else).

[Trebuchet]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

I agree with Marketeer - Only in Hero ID is the best way to go to represent what you're describing. That way your heroine will have her costume when she's going out on patrol or expecting a fight, but it won't be available when she's out to lunch with her DNPCs or at her day job. Since it's not technically a Focus, it'll be harder to take away or lose too. (As a player who played a Powered Armor character for several years, you'll be amazed/appalled at how often this can come up.)

 

Some other Limitation such as Activation 14- to represent less than 100% body coverage might help keep the cost down.

[Funksaw]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

Conversely' date=' if it were an OIF, it would be something easily removed if you were incapacitated, which precludes most suits (by genre convention if nothing else).[/quote']

 

 

Be sure that the character always wears long underwear and a full undershirt, and I wouldn't say that OIF precludes genre convention.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

I'm with Treb on this, it's OIHID that you want.

 

The problem with Extra Time to Activate is when you get to skill levels, technically every time you use them you're taking extra time.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

The problem with Extra Time to Activate is when you get to skill levels' date=' technically every time you use them you're taking extra time.[/quote']

How do you figure? It says that once it's started, you can use it when you want. An EB, for example, with Extra Time to Activate only takes that Extra Time when you "power up" at the beginning of a fight... after that, you use it as often during the fight as you wish without having to take Extra Time again before each shot. Why would the Skills be any different?

 

(Not disagreeing about OIHID being the proper way to go, by the way, just scratching my head about this part of your statement.)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

How do you figure? It says that once it's started' date=' you can use it when you want. An EB, for example, with Extra Time to Activate only takes that Extra Time when you "power up" at the beginning of a fight... after that, you use it as often during the fight as you wish without having to take Extra Time again before each shot. Why would the Skills be any different?[/quote']

ah good point. nevermind.

[Narratio]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

How do you figure? It says that once it's started' date=' you can use it when you want. An EB, for example, with Extra Time to Activate only takes that Extra Time when you "power up" at the beginning of a fight... after that, you use it as often during the fight as you wish without having to take Extra Time again before each shot. Why would the Skills be any different?.[/quote']

 

I agree with you, but I think something like this has a use with a skill like lock picking. A box within a box within a box, each requiring a lock to be picked. having picked one and opened the door, the next lock is basically starting from scratch again. Agreed, the situation may not come up very often in Champion level, but down among the agents...?

[David Johnston]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

Why would your character's costume take longer to put on than anyone else's costume?

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

Because it begs the question: how long DOES it take to put one on?

 

That being said, the original reason was that it's a full-body spandex bodysuit (which takes time to put on in and of itself), and has a bunch of equipment that goes along with it (ceramic inserts that need to be put in, utility belt that needs to be attached properly, communications device that needs to be activated/powered up, etc.); if other people don't have that limitation, then their suits are better-designed than this one is, and aren't as difficult to put on. Which was kind of the point - although it's not a BAD supersuit, it's not the latest and greatest in superhero gear.

 

Note - I had thought that OIHID would be the appropriate thing to take, but I didn't actually want to take it; I already designed her core powers (an energy aura) with that limitation, and wanted a more layered approach to her build; something that would make her equipment be out of reach at times, but for reasons OTHER than her secret ID.

 

In thinking about it more, I may take it as just the -1/4 limitation, as it's funtionally as limiting as OIHID. Of course, this tells me that "Extra Time (only to activate)" seems to be a bit too useful for any power that you can concievably turn on out of combat, and then use IN combat. It implies that you don't get up in the morning and turn your powers on, but instead wait until you get attacked, and only THEN turn 'em on. I can see in-game reasons for not doing so (like having a secret ID, even if you don't take OIHID), but even still that just means that you won't have the power available for those times in which you get jumped while in civvies. Which, admitadly, is part of the genre, but it's not THAT much of the genre.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

Because it begs the question: how long DOES it take to put one on?

 

That being said, the original reason was that it's a full-body spandex bodysuit (which takes time to put on in and of itself), and has a bunch of equipment that goes along with it (ceramic inserts that need to be put in, utility belt that needs to be attached properly, communications device that needs to be activated/powered up, etc.); if other people don't have that limitation, then their suits are better-designed than this one is, and aren't as difficult to put on. Which was kind of the point - although it's not a BAD supersuit, it's not the latest and greatest in superhero gear.

 

Note - I had thought that OIHID would be the appropriate thing to take, but I didn't actually want to take it; I already designed her core powers (an energy aura) with that limitation, and wanted a more layered approach to her build; something that would make her equipment be out of reach at times, but for reasons OTHER than her secret ID.

 

In thinking about it more, I may take it as just the -1/4 limitation, as it's funtionally as limiting as OIHID. Of course, this tells me that "Extra Time (only to activate)" seems to be a bit too useful for any power that you can concievably turn on out of combat, and then use IN combat. It implies that you don't get up in the morning and turn your powers on, but instead wait until you get attacked, and only THEN turn 'em on. I can see in-game reasons for not doing so (like having a secret ID, even if you don't take OIHID), but even still that just means that you won't have the power available for those times in which you get jumped while in civvies. Which, admitadly, is part of the genre, but it's not THAT much of the genre.

 

After some consideration, I made the call that armor/costumes in a supers game that take realistic amounts of time to don are better done with the Real Armor limit rather than any extra time.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

Because it begs the question: how long DOES it take to put one on?

I generally figure that most costumes take about 1 Turn to don/doff unless they have the Instant Change power. Why 1 Turn? :shrug: That's the time required to remove an Inaccessible Focus, so it seemed to make sense to keep it about consistant. YMMV.

 

Note - I had thought that OIHID would be the appropriate thing to take' date=' but I didn't actually want to take it; I already designed her core powers (an energy aura) with that limitation, and wanted a more layered approach to her build; something that would make her equipment be out of reach at times, but for reasons OTHER than her secret ID.[/quote']

I like the "layered" idea. Is there a reason you don't want to just call the utility belt, etc an OIF and be done with it?

 

Of course' date=' this tells me that "Extra Time (only to activate)" seems to be a bit too useful for any power that you can concievably turn on out of combat, and then use IN combat.[/quote']

If it's something the character could reasonably be expected to turn on every morning when she suits up, then I agree it's not very limiting. But if there are reasons why she can't/doesn't do that (such as Side Effects or other complicating Lims), then it might be appropriate. Definitely a Caution Sign.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

I generally figure that most costumes take about 1 Turn to don/doff unless they have the Instant Change power. Why 1 Turn? :shrug: That's the time required to remove an Inaccessible Focus, so it seemed to make sense to keep it about consistant. YMMV.

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I had figured as well. It doesn't really stand up to actual analysis, but for the purpose of genre convention, that seems to be the case - ducking under the table, into a phone booth, etc.

 

I like the "layered" idea. Is there a reason you don't want to just call the utility belt, etc an OIF and be done with it?

 

Mainly due to the game mechanic definition of OIF - it can be taken from the character in 1 turn if they are unconcious or otherwise restrained. I was thinking that a spandex bodysuit, that takes a minute to put on, probably couldn't be removed quite that quickly.

 

If it's something the character could reasonably be expected to turn on every morning when she suits up, then I agree it's not very limiting. But if there are reasons why she can't/doesn't do that (such as Side Effects or other complicating Lims), then it might be appropriate. Definitely a Caution Sign.

 

Yeah - that was my main justification for taking the Extra Time for this stuff - she wouldn't nornally wear it to school, as wearing it under her clothing is a justification for the GM to hit me with the Soc Lim: Secret Identity. However, I wanted the character to be able to wear the outfit under normal (if heavy) clothing if she had to.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

After some consideration' date=' I made the call that armor/costumes in a supers game that take realistic amounts of time to don are better done with the Real Armor limit rather than any extra time.[/quote']

 

Ooh - good call. I had forgotten about that one. Thanks!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

To the issue of Extra Time - only to activate, there must be something that shuts it off. Otherwise, my Mutant character can develop his powers when he's age 16 and justifiably take "Extra time - 16 years - only to activate".

 

In my little world, those powers need to be reactivated after the character is Stunned or KO'd causing his normal non-persistent powers to shut down.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

it's a full-body spandex bodysuit (which takes time to put on in and of itself)' date=' and has a bunch of equipment that goes along with it (ceramic inserts that need to be put in, utility belt that needs to be attached properly, communications device that needs to be activated/powered up, etc.)[/quote']

From this description, it seems to me that most of the added equipment wouldn't actually slow down the taking-off end much, assuming the villains aren't going to care much if they deactivate everything, disconnect them in their proper order, etc. So really we're back to the full-body spandex bodysuit. And if we're willing to conceed that you can put on a bodysuit in 12 seconds, it's not too much of a stretch (sorry, bad pun unintentional) to say you could take one off in about that long.

 

Another option might be to take OIF, with a +1/4 Modifier: Takes 1 Minute To Ready/Remove, for a total Limitataion cost of -1/4 instead of the usual -1/2 for OIF?

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

From this description' date=' it seems to me that most of the added equipment wouldn't actually slow down the [i']taking-off[/i] end much, assuming the villains aren't going to care much if they deactivate everything, disconnect them in their proper order, etc. So really we're back to the full-body spandex bodysuit. And if we're willing to conceed that you can put on a bodysuit in 12 seconds, it's not too much of a stretch (sorry, bad pun unintentional) to say you could take one off in about that long.

 

The Extra Time (activation) I had on this originally was 1 Minute; I suppose the suit could be (literally) ripped off her body in a turn, assuming the remover in question had a blade or sharp claws available to them. I think the OIF description assumes the remover has the item in reasonable condition and the original wearer undamaged, though. Otherwise, removing Green Lantern's ring would take take 1 phase, but require a blade of sufficient sharpness.

 

 

Another option might be to take OIF, with a +1/4 Modifier: Takes 1 Minute To Ready/Remove, for a total Limitataion cost of -1/4 instead of the usual -1/2 for OIF?

 

I believe this is the definition of IIF: an item that can be removed only with the appropriate skill roll or specific situation; for the suit, the situation is "unconcious/restrained hero and enough time to remove a spandex bodysuit: 1 minute".

 

I'll probably go with a combination of "Real Equipment" and "IIF/OIF", to indicate both the necessity of taking realistic time to put the suit on, and the difficulty someone would have in taking it off (or ease, in the case of the belt.)

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Honey, where's my supersuit?

 

The Extra Time (activation) I had on this originally was 1 Minute; I suppose the suit could be (literally) ripped off her body in a turn' date=' assuming the remover in question had a blade or sharp claws available to them. I think the OIF description assumes the remover has the item in reasonable condition and the original wearer undamaged, though. Otherwise, removing Green Lantern's ring would take take 1 phase, but require a blade of sufficient sharpness. [/quote']

Agreed. Still, it generally takes less time to take gear off than it does to put it on. Sadly, I just don't have enough real world experience at removing spandex bodysuits from unconscious superheroines to say authoritatively.

 

I believe this is the definition of IIF: an item that can be removed only with the appropriate skill roll or specific situation; for the suit' date=' the situation is "unconcious/restrained hero and enough time to remove a spandex bodysuit: 1 minute".[/quote']

Although with IIF, you also get the benefit that it's not obvious where the powers come from. So it's a bit of a fudge, but an acceptable one IMHO.

 

I'll probably go with a combination of "Real Equipment" and "IIF/OIF"' date=' to indicate both the necessity of taking realistic time to put the suit on, and the difficulty someone would have in taking it off (or ease, in the case of the belt.)[/quote']

Yeah, to some extent what you call it is just a matter of semantic preferance. I think we're in general agreement on the value of the Lim.