Dust Raven Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Just started a new campaign, with a (mostly) new group of players. One of these players has a character whose powers are bases somewhat on the new-age properties os amethyst crystal. One such property is its ability to "hold a charge." In HERO, this sounds to me like Adjustment Powers, which can simulate positive (Aid, Healing) and negative (Drain, Suppress) charges of energy. Now, just slapping a Vulnerability to Drains and Suppresses (and even Transfers) is easy, but what about the Aids and Healings? Should I just say it's a side effect? How would it be paid for it not? Something else I'm missing? Since I can't even figure out how to properly buy an Aid or Healing with any kind of Modifiers to simulate this (short of Versus Everything I Have Spent Point On Simultaneously (+?) and Only Affects What's Actually Being Affected (-?)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 More info please; your post is too vague. What do you mean by "hold a charge" -- and to what ends? Why do you bring up vulnerabilities? What's the context? What are you trying to accomplish with the question marked advantages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 If you want to have him be able to just "hold a charge", i.e. have the effects of an adjustment power last longer, you could buy delayed return rate as a naked power advantage that is always on and usable by others, plus whatever other advantages are required to make it work. This only works if you consider the ability to be an advantage overall. Also, the limitation value of always on should probably be increased since it would now indicate a significant combat vulnerability. Edit: Come to think of it, No Conscious Control might be more appropriate than Always On with this construction. It doesn't work precisely how any of these advantages are written, but No Conscious Control might be a better guideline for how valuble an ability controlled entirely by what other people do is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 So... you are trying to simulate a character who can easily be tapped by drains and transfers, but who also benefits from AID powers above and beyond how they would affect the "average" individual? Vulnerability is a good idea on the "negative" effects. On the positive you could buy a small pool, set it to only be usable for AID powers, make the powers in it only usable on yourself, and give all items in it a TRIGGER so that they only activate on you when a similar AID is used on you; That wouldn't simulate duration, but it would simulate getting "improved" effects. But that seems kind of sloppy. There might be a better use for powers and "trigger". But I think the naked advantage mentioned above may be a little more in keeping with what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I'd consider buying the powers at a higher level, and throwing a Limitation on the top levels like "Only to double Aid effects" or something similar. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike More info please; your post is too vague. What do you mean by "hold a charge" -- and to what ends? Why do you bring up vulnerabilities? What's the context? What are you trying to accomplish with the question marked advantages? Sorry about that, I was in a hurry when I posted. "Hold a charge" isn't quite what I meant. It's more like "increased effect." Anything other than strait damage, such as the loss or gain of points in a Power or Characteristic, would be increased. I just don't know how to buy it for the benificial Adjustment Powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted June 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Okay, the Vulnerability is thus: Vulnerability: Invasive Adjustment Powers, x2 Effect. "Invasive" meaning it must directly affect the character. Gravity Fields and Temporal Anomalies don't count, but Synaptic Scramblers and Poisons do. I don't like VPPs, especially for this type of thing. It's like paying full price for a very limited power (although it might work for just a single die of increase, I dunno). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Several ways to increase the benefit from Aids. 1 way is to Succor vs Aid, trigger (someone is going to use an Aid on me) IPE, 0 END, 1 Segment only (-1/4). This would pump the incoming aid power only for that 1 segment, giving you an imperceptibly bigger boost, but not benefiting anyone else. It would prolly also need Range in case someone Range Aided you. Another way is to buy more effect for all your powers "only to match benefits from an Aid" (prolly around a -1 1/4 to -1 1/2, unless of course Aids are common in the setting, in which case it would be less). Another way is to have a VPP only to buy enough power and effect of a Power or Characterisic you have which is currently Aided to equal the Aided amount. (The same as the above, but pooled rather than purchasing each power seperately -- might be cheaper, might not depending on the number and RC of the powers involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kilroy Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Amethyst speaks... Hello... I know I haven't posted since a long time ago... I was Encantra on the old boards... briefly... ANYWAY! In case anybody was still fuzzy on what the picturesque, if a bit vague, Dust Raven was saying, I can sum it up real quick. Hi, I'm Amethyst. When I get hit with a drain aimed at me, I lose twice as much of whatever is being drained. If I get hit with an aid, I get a similarly bigger benefit from it. If I happen to wander through a gravity field bought as a general area effect STR drain that is just there, and not aimed at me specifically, the effects are totally normal. The vulnerability is as listed. No problem there. But we were wondering how to buy the bonus to aid powers. Shrike may have some real good ideas... I'm still new to the rules thing, but I think Raven'll like that. It "sounds" right to me. Other suggestions are always welcome, though. By the way, and forgive me, the name Shrike is triggering a major deja-vu. I should just ask Raven, but are you Vanguard? Or have I got the wrong guy? Oh, well... thanks for reading my ramblings, and I'll try to write here more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 No relation; I am not Vanguard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Amethyst Boost: Aid Aid 6d6 (Succor), Trigger: Someone is using Aid on me (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (AP 52); 1 Segment Only (-1/4), Cannot do more than double target's Aid (-1/2) (RC 30) Succor looks like a good non-VPP way to do it. It's kind of expensive, but if you consider the vulnerabilty, which is around 20 points I guess, the net cost is 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Snarf Amethyst Boost: Aid Aid 6d6 (Succor), Trigger: Someone is using Aid on me (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2) (AP 60); 1 Segment Only (-1/4), Cannot do more than double target's Aid (-1/2) (RC 34) Succor looks like a good non-VPP way to do it. It's kind of expensive but if you consider the vulnerabilty, which is around 20 points I guess, the net cost is 14. Yes, but you forgot IPE (so its not apparant that the recipient is doing a power effect -- it just happens imperceptibly, and the Trigger qualifies for a "set trigger" as its very defined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Oops, I just editted my original post to fix the trigger cost. It wouldn't necessarily have to happen imperceptibly. Maybe the character could glow purple or something as it's happening. That would save some points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Snarf Oops, I just editted my original post to fix the trigger cost. It wouldn't necessarily have to happen imperceptibly. Maybe the character could glow purple or something as it's happening. That would save some points. True; I would take it IPE for the schtick, but it certainly not a requirement. I mean, unless she also glowed purple when hit with drains it wouldnt really make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kilroy Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Ultra-violet, or violet ultra? Well, Amethyst is supposed to have the "look" of the beamer archetype, so she glows purple when she does ANYthing... so I could have her FF grow brighter when hit with adjustment powers... no big deal. That way, they'd know the stone her powers come from was doing *something* to her. No problem there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 The problem is Aid is an expensive power and since you're succoring someone else, you have to go through two aids before you finally get your boost. It might be more efficient to buy ordinary self-aid, enhance it so it can aid anything, then limit it so it can only copy what someone is doing to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Snarf The problem is Aid is an expensive power and since you're succoring someone else, you have to go through two aids before you finally get your boost. It might be more efficient to buy ordinary self-aid, enhance it so it can aid anything, then limit it so it can only copy what someone is doing to you. Not necessarily; basically it piggy backs on any other characters aid so long as it targets you. When you think of it that way its extremely efficient, balanced out because its a pretty rare occurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 That's a good point. You would be getting some pretty massive boosts and they could last a long time if the other character enhanced the duration. It would be pretty rare for an actual doubling of effect to occur though, so it might be better to buy it up to 100 active points or so, if the GM allows, or lower the limitation value of doubling as the maximum effect. My last thought is that the way the trigger advantage is defined seems like more of a disadvantage. Normally you could use a power like succor to help anyone, but this one will end up only benefitting yourself. So, I'd suggest adding another disadvantage such as Self Only (-1/2) to reflect this, even though you're technically aiding someone else. Soo, here's my final idea: Amethyst Boost: Aid Aid 6d6 (Succor), Trigger: Someone is using Aid on me (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2) (AP 60); 1 Segment Only (-1/4), Limited: Cannot do more than double target's Aid (-1/4), Self Only (-1/2) (RC 30) or: Amethyst Boost: Aid Aid 12d6 (Succor), Trigger: Someone is using Aid on me (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2) (AP 120); 1 Segment Only (-1/4), Cannot do more than double target's Aid (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) (RC 53) Note that either of these will cost you endurance and you aid buddy will need to use additional endurance for his enhanced power. Edit: I just noticed that a stone is where Amethyst's powers come from. Throw a focus limitation on it and even that high powered form is pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysea Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Why not buy this as a Character Perq or Talent instead of a Power? Just take the value of the "Vulnerability to Invasive Adjustment Powers", and spend the same number of character points to give yourself the same "Vulnerability" to Beneficial Adjustment Powers. Increase the cost of the Talent if you plan on getting Aided on a frequent basis, or just leave it at the same cost as the Vulnerability if beneficial adjustment powers are more rare in your group. Seems like an easier way to go about it. Just be sure that the Talent costs more than the Disadvantage is worth if, in practice, the benefits of the character's sensitivity to Adjustment Powers outweigh the drawbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 Based on that last 53 point Amethyst Boost ability, a new ability that gave a flat x2 to Aids should be about 60 or 80 points. Doing it this way could save tons of in-game dice rolling and calculations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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