Build me a voodoo doll

[Vestnik]

A doll and some unfortunate's hair. You hurt the doll, target from whom the hair has been taken takes damage. How to do this?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

. . . Ya ain't got the Hero Grimoire?

[Vestnik]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

Nay, I do not possess this esoteric volume. I was unaware it had been written up somewhere.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

In short, Doll Magic is written up as a Multipower, with Short-Range Kill, Long-Range Kill (both 2d6 RKA, AVLD, Does BODY), Short-Range Harm, Long-Range Harm (both RKA 4d6, AVLD, Does BODY, Only To Impair/Disable Bodyparts), Deflected Harm (Missile Deflection/Reflection against doll target) and Control (Mind Control 30d6) slots. Total cost of 65 points . . .

[Vestnik]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

Yikes, thanks. That's brutal. How does one bypass having to make an attack roll?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

. . . Handwave.

 

Or, there's the Wich's Eye spell: Detect Target Of Long-Range Witchcraft Spell. Got Targeting and Telescopic, so's you can find the bstrd you're aiming at.

[Markdoc]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

A better approach than handwaving (and the one I have used myself in games) is to make the attacks area-effect megascaled: big enough to cover the planet, and then add in the limitation - only affects target whose material is contained within doll (-1/2). The limitation is not higher because in some way this could be seen as an advantage.

 

Then all you need to do is hit the hex you are standing in with your attack roll. Even a palsied old wizard should be able to do that.

 

cheers, Mark

[mattingly]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

This "Fetish, the Living Voodoo Doll" artwork comes from my Fires Of War book of WWII superhumans.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

A better approach than handwaving (and the one I have used myself in games) is to make the attacks area-effect megascaled: big enough to cover the planet, and then add in the limitation - only affects target whose material is contained within doll (-1/2). The limitation is not higher because in some way this could be seen as an advantage.

 

Then all you need to do is hit the hex you are standing in with your attack roll. Even a palsied old wizard should be able to do that.

 

cheers, Mark

 

1. Surely that is a selective AoE and is higher, at least on the face of it: Selective AoE is AoE cost +1/4 limitation (IIRC) but only having an effect on a single target may well be a limitation. You could well combine and make it a single limitation, but then you can get odd results if there are other advantages and limtiations to be considered. Doesn't really matter so long as the GM OKs it - I'm just saying.

 

2. Even an AoE that covers the world does not effect everyone on earth: a normal AoE does not bypass barriers, so if you wanted this level of effect you would also need to include some sort of indirect component.

 

3. Have you considered Mind Scan? OK, it doesn't bypass the attack roll (but +10 EOCV only costs 20 points, and maybe that is the point of the material from the person you wish to effect), and you can then either attack with Mental Illusions, or, if you want to, buy 'Does BODY' for an EGO attack'.

 

4. Just because this is Hero, and depending on how you want this to work....you could also buy this as a continuous attack that only actually causes damage when you stick a pin in the doll. So you actually activate the power when you collect a sample of hair from the target, and it stays running until some condition is fulfilled, and throughout the run time, sticking a pin in the doll causes the damage to actually be done.

 

I'm a little wary of introducing the concept of megascaled AoEs. To be honest I'm not keen on megascale at the best of times. Something that can effect someone 'on Earth', in effect without an attack roll, should cost absolute scads. It is not as if you cannot do it with normal AoE - it just costs an awful lot less with megascale.

[Markdoc]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

1. Surely that is a selective AoE and is higher' date=' at least on the face of it: Selective AoE is AoE cost +1/4 limitation (IIRC) but only having an effect on a single target may well be a limitation.[/quote']

 

Yep, you nailed it. Selective would let you choose who to hit and also requires a to hit roll, neither of which is wanted here.

 

 

2. Even an AoE that covers the world does not effect everyone on earth: a normal AoE does not bypass barriers' date=' so if you wanted this level of effect you would also need to include some sort of indirect component.[/quote']

 

Correct - but the original writeup already includes indirect IIRC - the AoE, megascale was simply a way to add in the desired "affects target regardless of distance or location" without having to handwave it.

 

3. Have you considered Mind Scan? OK' date=' it doesn't bypass the attack roll (but +10 EOCV only costs 20 points, and maybe that is the point of the material from the person you wish to effect), and you can then either attack with Mental Illusions, or, if you want to, buy 'Does BODY' for an EGO attack'.[/quote']

 

Already considered - it does several things which are unwanted (such as requiring all attacks to be BOECV, and shifting the nature of the attack roll, making high EGO targets harder to hit, etc) and also does not do the thing wanted - which is model "affects target regardless of distance or location" - the modifications to ECV could easily make it very hard to hit the target.

 

That's not saying you couldn't model it like this if you wanted: simply that it doesn't model the voodoo doll thing very well.

 

4. Just because this is Hero' date=' and depending on how you want this to work....you could also buy this as a continuous attack that only actually causes damage when you stick a pin in the doll. So you actually activate the power when you collect a sample of hair from the target, and it stays running until some condition is fulfilled, and throughout the run time, sticking a pin in the doll causes the damage to actually be done.[/quote']

 

That only works if the target is successfully attacked with the power - and requires some handwavium since normally the effect would cease once they moved out of range. Again, it's a viable approach for some attacks, just not what we want here.

 

I'm a little wary of introducing the concept of megascaled AoEs. To be honest I'm not keen on megascale at the best of times. Something that can effect someone 'on Earth'' date=' in effect without an attack roll, should cost absolute scads. It is not as if you cannot do it with normal AoE - it just costs an awful lot less with megascale.[/quote']

 

You can't do it with a regular AoE unless you either spend monstrous amounts or you introduce megascale or megarange. Having a regular AoE does you no good at all if you are in Hong Kong and your target is in Asuncion.

 

However, I do agree that it should cost scads - and it does. To use a killing attack, we are talking about AVLD, does body or NND, does body, indirect AoE, megascale (planet) for a minimum of + 4 3/4 or 86 active per d6 of RKA - and in the context discussed here, you can only use it if you have secured something with a mystic connection to your victim.

 

So it's a very powerful spell/power, but not one that's unlikley to unbalance the game - certainly no more than a 5 1/2d6 RKA, which is the nearest "straight" version.

 

Perhaps the acid test is despite the fact that this power is theoretically available to players IMG, none of them have ever shown any desire to take it

 

cheers, Mark

[Sean Waters]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

You can't do it with a regular AoE unless you either spend monstrous amounts or you introduce megascale or megarange. Having a regular AoE does you no good at all if you are in Hong Kong and your target is in Asuncion.

 

However, I do agree that it should cost scads - and it does. To use a killing attack, we are talking about AVLD, does body or NND, does body, indirect AoE, megascale (planet) for a minimum of + 4 3/4 or 86 active per d6 of RKA - and in the context discussed here, you can only use it if you have secured something with a mystic connection to your victim.

 

So it's a very powerful spell/power, but not one that's unlikley to unbalance the game - certainly no more than a 5 1/2d6 RKA, which is the nearest "straight" version.

 

Perhaps the acid test is despite the fact that this power is theoretically available to players IMG, none of them have ever shown any desire to take it

 

cheers, Mark

 

 

With a power of this sort, the rate of damage is a lot less important than one that you would use in direct combat where the target could strike back. You could easily build it as a 1 pip killing attack at a cost of just 29 active points, and it would still kill most targets within a minute: in fact the whole point of a voodoo doll is often not the killing but coercion by fear, which would make a smaller attack more appropriate.

 

Even without the limitation for needing a personal item or body part, it is cheap. I'd imagine that the reason players would not generally take the power is that it is not very exciting, and not the sort of power that most PCs would get a lot of mileage from: a direct attack energy blast or killing attack is much more their speed, I'd guess

 

Doing it as a 1 pip RKA:

 

AoE to include the radius of the earth, selective +5.75 (each +1/4 doubles radius IIRC)

Fully indirect +0.75

0 END +0.5

NND +1

Does BODY +1

 

Total advantages +9

Total cost 50 active points

 

Not cheap, I'll give you, but it avoids megascale and you are buying an attack that can harm an opponent who almost certainly has no way of hitting back or defending himself and that cannot miss. That is before you have put limtiations on it.

 

I do not have the book with me but I thought that the advantaged form of selective (as opposed to the limtied form, non-selective) allowed you simply to define which targets in the AoE you could hit - I did not remember it needing a seperate attack roll for each, but I could be wrong.

[McCoy]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

Personally I'd go BOECV with indirect to get around the LOS issue. Add "Does body" to the BOECV and this gets very expensive. As it should be for something this powerful.

[Vestnik]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

1. Surely that is a selective AoE and is higher, at least on the face of it: Selective AoE is AoE cost +1/4 limitation (IIRC) but only having an effect on a single target may well be a limitation. You could well combine and make it a single limitation, but then you can get odd results if there are other advantages and limtiations to be considered. Doesn't really matter so long as the GM OKs it - I'm just saying.

 

Say you could build a D&D Magic Missile that always hits like this, couldn't you? A big AE with the limitation only does damage to one target.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

1. Surely that is a selective AoE and is higher, at least on the face of it: Selective AoE is AoE cost +1/4 limitation (IIRC) but only having an effect on a single target may well be a limitation. You could well combine and make it a single limitation, but then you can get odd results if there are other advantages and limtiations to be considered. Doesn't really matter so long as the GM OKs it - I'm just saying.

 

Say you could build a D&D Magic Missile that always hits like this, couldn't you? A big AE with the limitation only does damage to one target.

 

Absolutely - just make sure that the AoE radius = the range of the missile, and you are good. Technically it is still avoidable if the target can dive for cover, but then only if they can get outside the maximum range/radius of the effect.

[Robyn]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

Doing it as a 1 pip RKA:

 

AoE to include the radius of the earth, selective +5.75 (each +1/4 doubles radius IIRC)

Fully indirect +0.75

0 END +0.5

NND +1

Does BODY +1

 

Total advantages +9

Total cost 50 active points

 

At that level of Advantages, not much difference to add on Continuous

[Markdoc]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

With a power of this sort' date=' the rate of damage is a lot less important than one that you would use in direct combat where the target could strike back. You could easily build it as a 1 pip killing attack at a cost of just 29 active points, and it would still kill most targets within a minute: in fact the whole point of a voodoo doll is often not the killing but coercion by fear, which would make a smaller attack more appropriate.[/quote']

 

Agreed - it doesn't need to be powerful, since it's an NND.

 

Even without the limitation for needing a personal item or body part' date=' it is cheap. I'd imagine that the reason players would not generally take the power is that it is not very exciting, and not the sort of power that most PCs would get a lot of mileage from: a direct attack energy blast or killing attack is much more their speed, I'd guess [/quote']

 

Again, agreed - that's why I wasn't too fussed with letting it into the game - it primarily serves as a plot device. I think also it's not just a question of exciting - more that a player simply isn't going to get much mileage out of it and at 30+ points for the cheapest version, it's alot to spend on 'flavor'.

 

Doing it as a 1 pip RKA:

 

AoE to include the radius of the earth, selective +5.75 (each +1/4 doubles radius IIRC)

Fully indirect +0.75

0 END +0.5

NND +1

Does BODY +1

 

Total advantages +9

Total cost 50 active points

 

Not cheap, I'll give you, but it avoids megascale and you are buying an attack that can harm an opponent who almost certainly has no way of hitting back or defending himself and that cannot miss. That is before you have put limtiations on it.

 

Also agreed - if you were determined to avoid megascale you could do it like this - it'd cost you a bit less than 20 points more, but you could certainly do it. Since I have nothing in particular against megascale, I wouldn't bother. In either case, this is essentially a plot device power: the only way to avoid it is to have an appropriate suppress/dispel or have the coreect defence vs the NND (in my case, it was being inside a protective ward, like a pentagram or holy sanctuary).

 

I do not have the book with me but I thought that the advantaged form of selective (as opposed to the limtied form' date=' non-selective) allowed you simply to define which targets in the AoE you could hit - I did not remember it needing a seperate attack roll for each, but I could be wrong.[/quote']

 

Indeed you are. Selective allows you to make attack rolls against targets you wish to attack in the AoE, so you can attack enemies and ignore friendlies. Non-selective means you roll to hit everybody in the AoE, enemy or friend. But in either case the attack is at normal DCV/ECV

 

cheers, Mark

[Mad Fnorder]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

If you're really allergic to some of the handwavium, throw No Range Mod on that Megascale AoE Selective. I mean, we've already got +9 in advantages. Given the combination of the Megascale and the fully indirect, you're probably hitting surprised-out-of-combat Half DCV anyway. Throw a couple of OCV levels on the doll to compensate as well. Or wait until they go to sleep...

[L. Marcus]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

. . . Would this doll build use an RSR? I'd hate those Skill Roll Penalties . . .

[Markdoc]

Re: Build me a voodoo doll

 

If you're really allergic to some of the handwavium' date=' throw No Range Mod on that Megascale AoE Selective. I mean, we've already got +9 in advantages. Given the combination of the Megascale and the fully indirect, you're probably hitting surprised-out-of-combat Half DCV anyway. Throw a couple of OCV levels on the doll to compensate as well. Or wait until they go to sleep...[/quote']

 

You wouldn't need it - since the charcter is in the AoE and it's not selective, you don't need to roll to hit. All you have to do is hit the DCV0 hex you are standing in. And if you miss and hit the hex beside it, so what? He's still going to be in the AoE.

 

cheers, Mark