Reading FRED for the First Time

[ghost-angel]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

- Freedom in gaming has a price... but its not too high.

 

sigged.

[LordSkatterhawk]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

sigged.

 

I don't want to run into the dreaded double-post, and this post will put me close. I just wanted to point out one thing. Before I do that though, let me say, "Thanks ghost-angel! I'm glad I could get into your signature. You even fixed my grammar."

 

Here's the problem: you spelled my callsign as LordShatterhawk. Close, but that would be someone else. I'm LordSkatterhawk. Maybe I should be Shatterhawk, but I'm leaving that one open for the next Lord to walk in. Anyway, just fix it in your signature before you embarrass me.

 

Lord Skatterhawk

Hero has taught me:

- Fractions and the multiplication thereof

- Freedom in gaming has a price... but it's not too high.

 

The Boards have taught me:

- Be a faster typist.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Hey Skatterhawk:

 

In the User CP section you can modify your sig and add in those notes you've made for yourself. Much easier than typing them (for example; my HICCOS is sigged; GA's notes are sigged as well).

 

That's the third time I've been sigged, too. I'm moving up in the world!

[LordSkatterhawk]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Thanks Thia for that advice. I now have a signature for every message.

 

I've decided to build my initial test character. I'm looking to keep it simple, since this is my first character in a new system. I'll probably use a package or two as a jumping-off points for my 75+75 Heroic character and treat 5ER as reference. It will probably take some time, but I think the best way for me to understand the system is to do something with it.

 

Does anyone else have any advice for me as I embark on this endeavor?

 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to include my concept at this point: a young conscript into the army of an established kingdom. He's going to be from a society that values personal valor and physical appearance in its leaders. Since his clan was conquered, he must serve 5 years with the military. His young age and small frame make him suitable to work as a rider with the Royal Post (think Fantasy Pony Express: when the king or a noble needs a messenger, they go for these guys).

 

Thanks for all your support everyone!

[Robyn]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

I now have a signature for every message.

 

If you really want to, the number of underscores before a sigline are 18. I've counted them, in the past, when I wanted to create a custom signature for a single message.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

 

Does anyone else have any advice for me as I embark on this endeavor?

 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to include my concept at this point: a young conscript into the army of an established kingdom. He's going to be from a society that values personal valor and physical appearance in its leaders. Since his clan was conquered, he must serve 5 years with the military. His young age and small frame make him suitable to work as a rider with the Royal Post (think Fantasy Pony Express: when the king or a noble needs a messenger, they go for these guys).

 

Thanks for all your support everyone!

 

Here's a sample of character building that I put up a while back. You may find it useful:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=62124#post62124

 

Edit: One thing you'll note on the characteristics portion of the sample is that I take a bit of advantage of rounding rules to get the numbers to come out to nice round numbers. For example, 15 STR and 13 CON contribute 8 (7.5 rounded up) and 7 (6.5 rounded up) to the STUN total. Then I take 15 BODY so I come out with a nice even 30 STUN and enough BODY to survive taking some killing damage. I also used rounding with Running taken at 7". This gives a 4" half move (3.5" rounded up), which can come in handy. This isn't anything abusive per se, and most long time players use rounded numbers pretty much instinctively. It's just a quirk of the way that rounding works that tends to devalue some of the off values.

[LordSkatterhawk]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Thanks Pattern Ghost for that link. I've been pouring over the skills chapter trying to follow your lead. Additionally, for these first few characters, I have decided to design on a 50+50 budget because that limits some of my options. Unfortunately, I've been having a tough time getting these test characters finished. I have a rough concept and I get going. However, I can never seem to get all the pieces together. I either spend too much on skills or too much on Characteristics. I think I am suffering from "option-shock." I've never had so much freedom and so many widgets (re: skills and Characteristics) to move around.

 

Should I just up the point total? Should I steal some of Killer Shrike's excellent Fantasy Hero packages and try to run some Skill v. Skill challenges? Should I leave the Characteristics alone except for the ones essential to my concept? I know that I have presented lots of questions, but I feel like my time reading the rules has opened up a new vista and I don't know how to reach what I see on the horizon.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

I'd suggest going ahead and building the character over budget, then trimming it down from there. That can help tighten up your concept. Why don't you post the over budget version and we can help trim it down on the boards?

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

You know, one thing that's possibly making creating a character difficult is trying to do it in a vaccuum. Every GM will tend to set their own benchmarks and expectations for the game. The table with suggested power levels is a good rough guide, but its just that: rough. I'll write up some stuff on each power level, and maybe that'll help you find a comfort zone to play in with character generation.

 

BASICS:

 

 

 

Characteristics: All stats flow from the default values (10s on primaries with default figureds), that are the normal, or average human. Most games make this assumption, I think. Now, as we rise in power levels, we move further and further away from the norm. You should try to keep well within the Normal Characteristics Maxima for most levels of power until you hit into superheroic. The system isn't super granular at low levels, because of the way skill rolls are derived from them, but in general a 13 to 15 is a very solid stat and anything higher is going to wow and amaze the normal Joes with 8s and 10s in the same areas.

 

So, rising in power from a normal guy to a hero is definately easily done with Characteristics, but you shouldn't spend too much of your budget here, especially at lower power levels. (There are concepts that are clear exceptions to this, but in general you get a more "balanced" feel from spreading points into other areas.)

 

Skills: Here's where you can really set yourself apart from the norm. Most folks only have their default Everyman Skills. In fact, all of your PCs also have the Everyman Skills, and you should keep that in mind when creating your character. For example, in a modern setting, most folks can drive a car. Unless your character is a professional driver and driving is going to be a big part of the setting, there's usually no pressing need to take Combat Driving.

 

Keep in mind, the skills section is primarily a list of adventuring skills. Many of these skills aren't really accessable to the general population. When people talk about taking Background skills to flesh a character out, they're talking about taking those without a direct adventuring application.

 

Talents: Normal people don't have any talents. These are a bridge between Powers and Skills, and mostly built with the Power rules underlying them. Conceptionally, a normal human without real powers can have a talent. For lower level campaigns, this is where you stop, as many powers aren't really appropriate. Some of the more powerful talents may also be out of scope of some lower level genres.

 

Powers: You can do a LOT with Powers. It's probably best NOT to do a lot with them at first. Powers can range from increasing basic movement (extra inches of Running, Swimming, within NCM), to creating super-skills (AOE, Selective on an RKA to simulate rapid fire shooting against multiple targest for example), to creating magic spells or super powers. In most lower level games, you won't need to dip into the Powers section.

 

This next section will run long, so I'm going to break out into a post with a sample character for each power level next.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

NORMALS

 

Incompetent Normal

 

This really a pretty useless entry on the table when it comes to playing with the system. It's a guideline for building an Incompetent Normal level NPC for the DNPC disadvantage.

 

Standard Normal

 

This is where the system sees normal folks. If you wanted to build an average real world person, you'd start here. All of your characteristics points are coming from Disadvantages, and you don't have a lot to spend.

 

Let's make an ex-Con for a quickie example.

 

I'm going to figure my ex-Con is probably a strong arm robber type. Just a petty criminal recently released for the tenth time. So, he probably has a bit above average strength and physical prowess. He's got a bad reputation and is Watched by the autorities. Since my points budget is deriving only from Disadvantages, I'll start there:

 

Hunted: Local Authorities: More Powerful (15), NCI (5), limited geographical area (his hometown/county) (-5), and frequency is 8- (0), and the hunter is Watching (-10). Total points: 5.

 

Reputation: ex-Con, 8-. Extreme. Total points: 10.

 

Social Limitation: ex-Con. 11- frequency. Total Points: 10

 

That's 25. Now, I could replace Reputation with Distinctive Features: Prison Tattoos, but that's less personal. This guy is pretty much an outcast in his own community. He's in a bind because it's hard for him to get legitimate work and he's not allowed to associate with his old criminal contacts for fear of violating his Parole and going back to jail. I'm sure that if you asked the board for examples of 25 pts worth of limitations for an ex-Con you'd get a variety of different builds, mostly better than this, but they'd all probably be right. The point is we have some traits that help define the character and we have some points to build with.

 

Now, for chacteristics and skills:

 

15 STR 5

11 DEX 3

13 CON 6

10 INT 0

10 EGO 0

13 PRE 3

10 COM 0

05 PD 2

03 ED 0

02 SPD 0

06 REC 0

26 END 0

25 STN 0

Total: 19

 

Skills:

 

3 Streetwise 12-

3 +1 with Punch/Grab/Block

 

Total: 6

 

What we end up with is a very Characteristics heavy guy. He's a basic Brick, really. He'll pulp your average 7-11 owner pretty easily, but he doesn't have any stand out skills. Just a bad attitude, a bad rep, and a little street smarts.

 

Actually, Bricks are a pretty simple archetype to build, so I'll probably be using them again.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Narosia Sea of Tears

http://www.narosia.com/

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

More Narosia Sea of Tears

http://www.narosia.com/

 

 

 

Anyway you get the idea.

 

QM

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Skilled Normal

 

This is someone who could probably fit into the real world, but they're the exceptional people. You're talking professional atheletes, soldiers of fortune, brilliant scientists, etc. This is probably the lowest level you'll see used in a game. At this level, you're talking a very gritty campaign, usually, where death is a very real possibility and while you have abilities that put you above the rest of humanity, you aren't above the World laying the smack down on you. In terms of fiction, we'd be talking about any of the more realistic genres, like the war movie, a Western (of the more realistic variety), Republic serials, etc. Ever see Tales from the Gold Monkey? I liked that show and to me it's a good example of the 25+25 power level. Here's a better plot summary.

 

Let's make Jake Cutter.

 

Let's see. Jake is a pilot who owns his own plane. He's a veteran and can hold his own in a fight. He has a love interest who gets herself into trouble fairly regularly. He's the father of seven kids and a pastor.. no, wait, wrong series.

 

Pretty basic. I'll divide his points pretty evenly among stats and skills.

 

 

13 STR 03

14 DEX 12

10 CON 00

10 BDY 00

13 INT 03

10 EGO 00

13 PRE 00

12 COM 01

03 PD 00

02 ED 00

03 SPD 06

05 REC 00

20 END 00

22 STN 00

 

Total: 25

 

He gets a bit above average STR because he's a pretty big guy and can toss a good solid punch, but he's not the strongest guy on the island, either. He does have good reflexes as shown by his ability to make the punches land, fly with far above average skill (this could be skill levels, but it's also evidence of genral dexterity), and he's been seen to be pretty deft and to show good reflexes in general. His CON and BODY were left baseline because he's never shown anything out of the ordinary there. I bought up his INT and PRE because he does show a propensity for outwitting his opponents. I tossed him a point of COM because he's not a bad-looking guy. Afterall, he not only has his DNPC, but a villain lusting after him as well.

 

Skills:

 

3 Combat Pilot 12-

1 Fam w/Mechanics 8-

3 Tactics 12-

3 Streetwise 12-

3 +1 level with Punch, Block, and Dodge

2 AK: South Pacific 11-

5 Contact: "Bon Chance" Louis 11- (Contact has useful skills +1pts, has access to major institutions 1pt, has contacts of his own +1pt)

1 Fringe Benefit: Passport

1 Fringe Benefit: Licensed to operate his air freight business.

2 WF: Small Arms

1 TF: Small Aircraft

 

Total: 25

 

Ok, here's where we really feel the crunch of being a fifty point hereo. It's not easy to model cinematic types on a low budget. Still, he's a fairly good example of an everyman type hero and the build captures (most of) his essential abilities.

 

Disadvantages:

 

Hunted by Nazis, 8-, More Powerful, NCI, Limited Area, wants to Harshly Punish. Total: 15 pts.

 

DNPC Sarah White, Slightly Less Powerful than PC (0), Useful Non-Combat Position or Skills (-5), Occasionally Shows Up 11- (10) Total: 5 pts

 

Unluck 1d6 Total: 5pts

 

Total: 25 pts.

 

Basically, the two biggest sources of Jack's adventures seem to be the Nazis and Sarah, and just plain dumb luck. These teaser videos give an idea of the kinds of trouble he gets into.

 

 

Competent Normal is the example I linked to above, so I'm going to skip it for now.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

HERO

 

Standard

 

OK, now we're up to the minimum power level that's the real comfort zone of the system, Heroic! It is, afterall, called the Hero system.

 

I think that if you come from other rpgs, the 75+75 level is probably a lot easier to deal with. While you may have examples of 25+25 or 50+50 in the lower ends of some games, those power levels are pretty quickly left behind with experience.

 

At 150 points, a character achieves a level of competence that sets them pretty far from every day reality, but firmly in cinematic reality, where a bullet still hurts quite a bit. Games like Top Secret: SI, and DnD at around level ten or so, hit this power level. Games like Twilight 2000 or Traveller would probably hit the 50+50 level. Of course, these are rough estimates and subject to debate, but I hope that's helpful as a rough guideline.

 

I think the most common genre that people use 75+75 for is Fantasy, followed closely by cinematic action genres.

 

... to be continued...

[LordSkatterhawk]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Hey Everybody,

 

I have one more final at the University before I have time to devote to finishing up some of my character ideas. The learning curve of Hero won't stop me from learning the system. Now I just need a group! (Yes, it is that age-old struggle fellow gamers.)

 

I just thought I should make a quick appearance to convey my thanks to The Question Man and Pattern Ghost for providing me with what I really needed: benchmarks. I'm so used to the 3-18 spread with point breaks at the even digits that the 10 base of Hero took a little getting used to. I think I have a handle on things now and I am unsure why it took me so long. After all, the average score in a 3-18 spread is 9-10.

 

Thanks for being so willing to provide examples and extended discussion to help a new guy! I'll post my sample character here when I am done and then it is on to fisticuffs for them. Why? I chose fistfights because I don't need equipment to test combat that way.

 

Truly,

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

Welcome to the fold. I looks like everyone has things well in hand, but I thought I'd pop up and offer a couple rounds of combat training if you feel up to it. I use MapTool (http://www.rptools.net) and can host a Hero combat session or two.

 

Email me at narosia.com if you are interested.

[LordSkatterhawk]

Re: Reading FRED for the First Time

 

"Thread, I saw unto thee, arise!"

 

I started a thread over here for my initial character experiments: http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1303582#post1303582

 

It's woefully incomplete and it deals with a cyber-spy, but I thought some of you might have constructive comments. Also, I wanted to let everyone know that I appreciated their advice while I was slogging through 5ER. I'll probably attempt a fantasy character after I work out more of the system. I haven't given up.

 

"I now return this thread to its regularly scheduled life cycle."