Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

u1 Smell Guilt: Detect Guilt (One Thing' date=' Discriminatory, Tracking, Ranged) (20 Active[/size']

Points), Not in Consecrated Areas (-1/4), Full Phase (-1/2), OIHID (-1/4),

Flashed as Smell/Taste Sense Group as Well As Mental Group (-1/2) (8 Real Cost)

 

I'm curious. How would this work if a person has committed heinous crimes yet truly believes they are doing good? They would, in their mind, be guiltless.

[Robyn]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

There is a downside to buying Skills with Limitations. They become a Power, and loose any benefit (or penalty) due to a Stat.

 

I.e., Lockpicking (3 Active Points) - OAF(1) gives a roll of 9- regardless of the charcter's DEX.

 

Extra skill levels, Limited to only apply to the Knowledge and Language skills from Ancient Greece?

[Robyn]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

I'm curious. How would this work if a person has committed heinous crimes yet truly believes they are doing good? They would' date=' in their mind, be guiltless.[/quote']

 

I imagine it would work in the same way that it does in Order Of The Stick:

 

Guard, walking away: "You know, I don't have to debate this with you. It's the law. You'll be held until you are found guilty or set free."

Belkar: "Sweet! I'm not even the slightest bit guilty."

Guard, from offstage: "In this usage, "guilty" means that you committed the crime, not that you feel guilt."

Belkar: "Oh. Never mind, then."

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

I'm curious. How would this work if a person has committed heinous crimes yet truly believes they are doing good? They would' date=' in their mind, be guiltless.[/quote']

 

I thought about that. Given what Furies were supposed to be, a better way to phrase it would probably be "Smell Infractions of the Divine Law" or something like that -- it detects objective deeds, not subjective feelings.

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

How'd you guys like this character anyway? I'm happier with it than I've been with any for a long time. (I'm not fishing for compliments, no matter how it appears. )

[Lucius]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

I'm curious. How would this work if a person has committed heinous crimes yet truly believes they are doing good? They would' date=' in their mind, be guiltless.[/quote']

 

That's why it's a Detect, not just a Telepathy. It detects what you're guilty of. Whether YOU consider what you did a crime/sin/evil act or not doesn't necessarily have a bearing.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Reading the palindromedary's mind, but the palindromedary is thinking illegibly again.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

That's why it's a Detect' date=' not just a Telepathy. It detects what you're guilty of. Whether YOU consider what you did a crime/sin/evil act or not doesn't necessarily have a bearing.[/quote']

 

I don't know. To me, Detect Guilt and Detect Past Crimes might be two different things.

 

And back to my original point. Essentially, the GM has to decide what "higher authority" in the game decides what is a crime and what isn't. Which to me implies it has an "ubergod" status.

 

To take a couple of things from different eras and geographies, the modern-day Pope and an Ancient Mayan High Priest. Perhaps not the best choices to illustrate, but it's what I thought up just now.

 

Both of them would be repelled by the other's beliefs and practices. To each, the other would be guilty of terrible crimes, and at the same time, both truly believe that they are correct and guiltless.

 

In this case, who decides who is truly guilty and who is not, other than some uber-authority/ubergod?

 

Because no matter which one is truly the "right" one, it means that the other person, and his beliefs, and worshiped deities, is false.

 

At least that's the way it would seem to me. Sorry if I went all philosophical on everybody.

[Lucius]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

If you're talking about a modern pope (say, the current or last one) what exactly do you think the Mayan priest would consider him guilty of?

 

Not that I don't think there is anything, I'm just not thinking of it offhand.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary adds that right now Lucius isn't thinking clearly anyway. Bear with him.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

I don't know. To me' date=' [i']Detect Guilt[/i] and Detect Past Crimes might be two different things.

 

And back to my original point. Essentially, the GM has to decide what "higher authority" in the game decides what is a crime and what isn't. Which to me implies it has an "ubergod" status.

 

To me, the "Detect" on the character sheet becomes a shorthand for a more detailed description in the character's background. The latter would be used to assess what does, or does not, qualify. As a GM, I'd want to be cofmortable I understand what is intended to be detected, both to ensure I'm OK with that level of "omniscience" and to run it according to the player's vision.

[Vondy]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

That's why it's a Detect, not just a Telepathy. It detects what you're guilty of. Whether YOU consider what you did a crime/sin/evil act or not doesn't necessarily have a bearing.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Reading the palindromedary's mind, but the palindromedary is thinking illegibly again.

 

 

According to whose definition?

 

Different cultures define transgressions in different ways. For instance: What may be theft from a Talmudic perspective may not be theft from an American Jurisprudence perspective. Different cultures have variant philosophical perspectives, social mores, taboos, and legal codes. Detect guilt by what standard?

 

A universal standard? The standards of the detector? The standards of the dominant culture? The standards of the detectee? The standards of the detectee's culture? Or maybe it has analyze and discriminatory and gives you a giant compare and contrast chart leaving you more befuddled than when you began. It might then be nicknamed "I've got a headache this big!"

 

And, if you do use a "universal standard" (I use this term because both theologians and ethical naturalists believe such a thing exists and, depending on the religion, the dividing line between the two can be minimal) then everyone at the gaming table will need to have the same universal outlook or people will be annoyed.

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

According to whose definition?

 

Different cultures define transgressions in different ways. For instance: What may be theft from a Talmudic perspective may not be theft from an American Jurisprudence perspective. Different cultures have variant philosophical perspectives, social mores, taboos, and legal codes. Detect guilt by what standard?

 

A universal standard? The standards of the detector? The standards of the dominant culture? The standards of the detectee? The standards of the detectee's culture? Or maybe it has analyze and discriminatory and gives you a giant compare and contrast chart leaving you more befuddled than when you began. It might then be nicknamed "I've got a headache this big!"

 

And, if you do use a "universal standard" (I use this term because both theologians and ethical naturalists believe such a thing exists and, depending on the religion, the dividing line between the two can be minimal) then everyone at the gaming table will need to have the same universal outlook or people will be annoyed.

 

It's a comic book campaign. It detects amorphously defined Bad Stuff.

[Robyn]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

And' date=' if you do use a "universal standard" (I use this term because both theologians and ethical naturalists believe such a thing exists and, depending on the religion, the dividing line between the two can be minimal) then everyone at the gaming table will need to have the same universal outlook or people will be annoyed.[/quote']

 

I don't think that's strictly necessary. If you "side with" some players over others, then yes, that can disrupt the cohesion of your group. But if everyone's idea of morality is wrong, they become united in their efforts to discover what is morality and why (or who made it that way).

 

Maybe they are immoral; heck of a WWYCD scenario?

[Vondy]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

It's a comic book campaign. It detects amorphously defined Bad Stuff.

 

How... Pooh.

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

Detect: Violations of the Kantian Categorical Imperative

[Astragaal]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

Id say your missing that the character is part of the Greek pantheon and where as they might not be threatening American values G amn it. The characters is going to interact with them which will attract the attension of to be fair a group of very powerful, meddling beings apt to caprociously curse nations, destroy cities, throw lighning etc. All in all well worth the 10 pts.

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

Id say your missing that the character is part of the Greek pantheon and where as they might not be threatening American values G amn it. The characters is going to interact with them which will attract the attension of to be fair a group of very powerful' date=' meddling beings apt to caprociously curse nations, destroy cities, throw lighning etc. All in all well worth the 10 pts.[/quote']

 

Not to mention that, judging by the myths, Zeus might decide to get jiggy with the character at any moment in the form of a bull, swan, or cloud of golden rain.

[Astragaal]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

I don't see how being a member of the Olympian Pantheon could be a Social Limitation.. Could be a big Rivalry, with all the Gods jockeying around.. Could be Unluck, getting stuck in plots and such..

 

Joe on the Street: " Hey, theres Fury! G-Dammed Greek Gods are destroying what America stands for!"

 

Could be I'm missing something, tho..

 

_CraterMaker

 

Id say your missing that the character is part of the Greek pantheon and where as they might not be threatening American values G amn it. The characters is going to interact with them which will attract the attension of to be fair a group of very powerful, meddling beings apt to caprociously curse nations, destroy cities, throw lighning etc. All in all well worth the 10 pts.

 

Having read, the rest of the board, I think the first draft was perfect, I disagree about Triremes not being a TF and the piloting of Triremes in combat should be combat Pilot or Boating or whtevever the skill is now. Vons-D man says that package deals dont give points back, and didnt in fourth. I personally played the original hero system, Ive read Foxbat, absorbed Goodwin, know how Create works as a power and enjoyed Danger International, My copnception of the hero system is firmly rooted here. Ive never read 5th edition, bought Fusion I havent bought a new hero product since, or indeed seen one. 4th in my opinion is a dumbed down, lame generification of the finest, most adaptable and glorious game system to grace gaming. The point being in the pre 4th hero system, package deals not only could be disadvantages (ie be worth negative points), but any disads bought within a package deal where not considered part of the characters disads limit, so a 75+75pt character, can have 20 points of disads in a package deal and still have 75+75points of optional disads to buy. Again most packages cost between -5 to +5. But I certainly ran a camaign with package deals that could net large numbers of points for a character or cost a large number, I did a Judge Dredd package deal which cost several hundred points leaving Judges in the super human category, but limited to only slightly higher stat maxima through the package deal.

 

I think the designer of the post, in his first draft has an excellent character, well thought out, thoroughly defined I had no problems with any of the powers/skills/stats or disads. I only skimmed the other drafts they seemed to be over polishing and nit picking around. In short if I was running you Id be very happy to have a player who knows and has the will to make a good character.

 

 

[Astragaal]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

Not to mention that' date=' judging by the myths, Zeus might decide to get jiggy with the character at any moment in the form of a bull, swan, or cloud of golden rain. [/quote']

 

Hadnt got further than the post I quoted when I posted , but yes ultimatly it wa bound to be expressed as a 10 pt hunted in the end

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

To me' date=' the "Detect" on the character sheet becomes a shorthand for a more detailed description in the character's background. The latter would be used to assess what does, or does not, qualify. As a GM, I'd want to be cofmortable I understand what is intended to be detected, both to ensure I'm OK with that level of "omniscience" and to run it according to the player's vision.[/quote']

 

What if I were to fold the Smell Guilt power into the Telepathy? It would look something like this:

 

u2 I Know Your Dark Secrets/Smell Guilt: 12d6 Telepathy, Tracking (70 Active Points), Not in Consecrated Areas (-1/4), OIHID (-1/4), Full Phase (-1/2), Only To Learn Misdeeds (-1), Flashed as Smell/Taste Sense Group as Well As Mental Group (-1/4). Limited Range (10"; -1/4) (20 Real Cost) END Cost: 7

I'm not sure you can buy Tracking for Telepathy though.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

Telepathy is a Power with sense-like attributes. You can't normally buy Tracking (or any other sense enhancers) for it.

 

What would Guilt smell like? I have a difficult time wrapping my brain around the choice of the Smell Sense Group. I've not read a wide diversity of comics, so I don't know if this ability has been done before in some fashion.

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

Telepathy is a Power with sense-like attributes. You can't normally buy Tracking (or any other sense enhancers) for it.

 

What would Guilt smell like? I have a difficult time wrapping my brain around the choice of the Smell Sense Group. I've not read a wide diversity of comics, so I don't know if this ability has been done before in some fashion.

 

Guilt smells like Chanel No. 4.

 

Basically I had the image of a forked tongue slipping out from between her lips, tasting the air: "Aha, I sense the foul stench of murder!"

 

I see your point though. I could just make it "sense guilt."

[SteveZilla]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

A forked tongue? Now there's an image that would stay with a person.

 

I didn't say it wasn't doable, just that it was unusual. I think it could add some interesting flavor, now that you gave me an example line. Just be prepared to follow the limitations of the sense group you assign the Detect Guilt, Discriminatory, Analytical, Targeting, 360 Degree Sensing, Tracking power to.

 

If you assign it to the Smell Group, it gets Sense and Ranged for free, but the GM can (and should) give bonuses & penalties to the PER roll based upon the Smell Per Roll chart on 5ER pg 354.

 

Perhaps the character can "see" the guilt staining their being? The Sight group gives Ranged and Targeting for free.

 

But the best fit because of powers like Darkness and Invisibility might be the Mental Sense Group. For instance, if the guilty were sealed in an NBC suit, could the character still sense their guilt? Can she sense the guilt from someone without needing to see them or know they are around?

[Lucius]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

What would Guilt smell like?

 

What does a thought sound like? What does an ideal look like?

 

Actually, it depends on what one is guilty of. The trail Alecto followed for Big Red for example smelled of crushed laurel leaves, burnt wood, dung mixed with a kind of warm metal scent, and a faint tang of blood.

 

The point is, a Fury can tell what you're guilty of even if you don't know. If you assaulted a poet without knowing their identity for example, you'll not only smell of blood (violence) but of laurel (victim was an artist.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Sniffing around a palindromedary

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

What does a thought sound like? What does an ideal look like?

 

Actually, it depends on what one is guilty of. The trail Alecto followed for Big Red for example smelled of crushed laurel leaves, burnt wood, dung mixed with a kind of warm metal scent, and a faint tang of blood.

 

The point is, a Fury can tell what you're guilty of even if you don't know. If you assaulted a poet without knowing their identity for example, you'll not only smell of blood (violence) but of laurel (victim was an artist.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Sniffing around a palindromedary

 

 

Oooh! I like that last image with the poet.

[Vestnik]

Re: Am I being an abhorrent munchkin?

 

OK, I realize I've been dwelling on this character for a billion years.

 

BUT -- I've thought about giving her some kind of power to cause remorse for one's evil actions. But I'm not sure how to do it.

 

PS. I'm not thinking of something that makes the targets into goody-two-shoes, but rather some kind of sanity-blasting attack. I would go with Ego Attack, but that would make her venom a bit redundant (although I could stack on Increased END limitations to make it less useful I suppose). So I'm thinking possibly some sort of Mental Illusions, only to relive scene of one's greatest guilt, perhaps giving it Extra Time and Gradual Effect? (It causes the target to be haunted by his/her misdeeds, let's say.)

 

A lot of work for a character I will likely never use!