New to HERO

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: New to HERO

 

I'd just give armor much lower values for ED than PD. There's no reason a metal (or leather, whatever) suit should provide as much protection from fire, electricity, or other energy. For that matter, it'd probably increase electrical damage.

 

ED doesn't have a SFX, the SFX rather determines what kind of defense the attack goes against. If you simply limit the ED available in the setting, you give magic a lot of power, since it's probably one of the few, if not the sole, source of energy damage.

[Alibear]

Re: New to HERO

 

I'd just give armor much lower values for ED than PD. There's no reason a metal (or leather, whatever) suit should provide as much protection from fire, electricity, or other energy. For that matter, it'd probably increase electrical damage.

 

ED doesn't have a SFX, the SFX rather determines what kind of defense the attack goes against. If you simply limit the ED available in the setting, you give magic a lot of power, since it's probably one of the few, if not the sole, source of energy damage.

 

Really? If I ever put my hand in the oven I always wear my 1 ED glove!

 

Blacksmiths wear leather aprons and Faraday (sp) Cages protect v electricty IIRC.

 

 

As a Scot I really should be able to spell the names of our Historical greats.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: New to HERO

 

Honestly, I think that you could just rename it. ND and MD, Normal Damage, Magic damage. Maybe not normal, though, as that then relates too closely to Normal and Lethal Damage. Regular? Mundane? Non-Magical? Or just keep it called physical, since it comes from a physical source, as opposed to a magical source. Anyway, Just some more food for thought.

[Alibear]

Re: New to HERO

 

Another thing to remember about armour is that it was probably worn layered.

 

A layer of padded cloth, perhaps boiled leather, mail and then metal plates on top of that.

 

If someone was throwing a molotove cocktail, acid bomb or whatever at me I sure would prefer if the oil had a few layers to get through before it made contact with my tender yeilding body.

[Lucius]

Re: New to HERO

 

Wow... thanks for the quick responses... I am amazed!

 

As usually happens, your answers have created more questions for me:

 

1 - It was stated that attack rolls normally do not include armor. I thought most attack rolls went against the targets Defense which includes armor, combat adjustments, etc. Is this incorrect?

 

If it is correct... I am confused about the wizard / fighter characters. In HERO how does a wizard (who has spent points on spells) ever fight against a fighter who can just buy a lot of armor in order to defend against hits and spells... while at the same time, spending a ton of points in combat skills with their weaponry... it seems that this would puts the balance greatly in favor of the fighter, rather than the wizard... since the Wizard would have to buy spells (powers) while also building a high enough combat to bypass the fighters armor. A wizard, in my mind, may not be able to use a sword well... but could be very powerful with spells... but how is this possible since without a high offensive combat level, the attack rolls would never succeed.

 

That’s a good question, and if you go the Fantasy Hero forum and look around at any given time, you may find people discussing it. Some brief notes to cover the territory:

 

1. Wizards often have what are called Frameworks for their spells. A good example of a framework is a Multipower, which means that a selection of powers are linked together such that they can NOT all be used at the same time; i.e. you can’t be throwing a lightning bolt with one hand and fireball with the other. This also makes each power CHEAPER, meaning the wizard can afford a lot of spells – just can’t run them all at once.

2. Instead of using Frameworks, some people just cut the cost of all spells to one third. Note that in either case, the fighter or rogue is NOT getting the same cost break on their skills.

3. Even in D&D at low levels, “magic-users” really AREN’T competitive with the other “classes” (another thing you’ll have to get used to – Hero is a vulgar system. It has no class.) But people play them anyway. Why? Among other things, a magician can DO THINGS that no one else can. Sure, the fighter can get a sword and some armor without paying character points for it, but can he get something that makes him invisible? Lets him fly? Identifies that strange glowing object so we know if touching it will heal wounds or cause them, summon a dragon or turn someone into one?

4. Some people actually DO make the fighters pay for armor and weapons as powers costing character points.

 

2 - Could someone explain, in story-telling terms, why armor would protect against spells? It would help me explain why this to my players. They are used to magic being compeltely uneffected by armor... so this is a huge paradym shift for them.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tomasina

 

Well, why WOULDN’T armor protect against spells? If a spell creates a missile, why should that missile interact with armor differently than an arrow would?

 

But on the other hand, even though armor and weapons are not usually paid for with points, they are usually assumed to have a Limitation “real armor” and “real weapon.” This is a kind of “catch all” limitation that means “regardless of what the basic mechanical power does, you can’t use this item to do anything it reasonably can’t do.” For instance, a sword may do the same base damage as an ax, but whoever’s running the game can say “no, you can’t use that sword to hack down a door as if it were an ax.” Contrariwise, a magic sword bought WITHOUT that “real weapon” limitation maybe COULD cut a door down easily – it’s not restricted to doing just what a mundane sword could do.

 

So if you want, you can say that part of the “real armor” limitation is that it DOESN’T protect against spells. This is another way to help balance the scales between fighters and wizards.

 

Thanks for the quick replies... I was amazed that there were already responses to my questions. I really appreciate it.

 

Your replies have resulted in a couple more questions for me....

 

2 - How does a wizard's attack roll ever overcome the defensive combat level of a fighter or equally defensive opponent. In creating a wizard, I would not expect him to be a good fighter... but if he is not, how is he every going to succeed on an attack roll? Since a wizard already has to spend points on spells (powers) it seems that for the same character to also have to spend points on increasing their combat levels puts them at a disadvantage as compared to non-spell based classes.

 

Tomasina

 

One option is to buy spells with the “Based on Ego Combat Value” advantage. That makes ordinary DEX based Defensive Combat Value irrelevant, and the combat becomes mind-to-mind – where the wizard probably has the advantage.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reminds me I have to hurry.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: New to HERO

 

Welcome Tomasina.

 

Tis true that the biggest obstacle you're likely to find is the fact the the Special effect of a power is divorced from the actual power.

 

Every power you can think of [from a sword to a spell to any godly power - everything basically is a 'power'] will be able to be made in many different ways.

 

You can ask for a sample build of just about anything you can possibly think of, and the HEROphiles will come up with many different ways of representing what you'd like to do with the rules in the book. 5th Edition Revised [5ER] is the ruleset that will usually be used/quoted. It's referred to as a 'toolkit' game being that you can customize and tailor each and every rule to your own liking. You never have to be a slave to the way any other game works again - you can make it work the way you want it to.

 

Seriously, think of a power and ask for a build, you'll be amazed at the diversity and incredible imaginations of the folks here on these boards.

 

To prove the above statemant true check out this thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50153&highlight=skin+cat

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: New to HERO

 

Really? If I ever put my hand in the oven I always wear my 1 ED glove!

 

Blacksmiths wear leather aprons and Faraday (sp) Cages protect v electricty IIRC.

 

 

As a Scot I really should be able to spell the names of our Historical greats.

 

Going for the facetious award? =P

 

Your examples are all designed to protect from specific things. Your glove doesn't give ED anyway, just LS: Extreme Heat, limited to your hand. =P

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: New to HERO

 

Another thing to remember about armour is that it was probably worn layered.

 

A layer of padded cloth, perhaps boiled leather, mail and then metal plates on top of that.

 

If someone was throwing a molotove cocktail, acid bomb or whatever at me I sure would prefer if the oil had a few layers to get through before it made contact with my tender yeilding body.

 

You just made my point, thanks. Your under layers are what provide some ED. Metal shouldn't. Metal is a very good transmitter of a lot of types of energy.

 

Bottom line is, you could get very specific about what special effects interact with what kinds of armor, both in building the armor and the powers, but this thread is for someone new to the system. I offered a SIMPLE solution: Cut the ED values on armor. That's a heck of a lot faster and easier, and gives the desired result.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: New to HERO

 

I just use PD/2 = ED. So your 8 DEF platemail is really 8 rPD/4 rED. Works just fine, achieves the desired result.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: New to HERO

 

I just use PD/2 = ED. So your 8 DEF platemail is really 8 rPD/4 rED. Works just fine' date=' achieves the desired result.[/quote']

 

Exactly!