Summoning Question

[Thia Halmades]

There's a rule that I haven't grasped, and it's how someone would pay for a Vehicle/Follower/etc. vs. how Summoning is paid for.

 

If I want to summon a Swarm of Vermin (a multiple of creatures worth up to X points), which of the following do I use as the cost? The Total Disadvantage cost? Is it different for vehicles? Do you only pay for the "spent" points, minus the disads? Can I get a quick break down of this?

 

Did my question even make sense?

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Summoning Question

 

It's easier if you start with something basic.

 

You have a follower, let's call him Tim. (Hi Tim)

 

Tim is Noteworthy Person with a Total Cost (Powers & Skills & Characteristics & Experience) of 7 points. (See page 345 of 5th Edition Revised)

 

Tim has 0 Base Points, so he costs the minimum 1 point to have him as a follower. (see page 81 of 5th Edition Revised) Note that the 10 points of Disadvantages don't count directly, but since you are using Base Points, you aren't paying his slightly higher Total Cost.

 

Note that this is your follower Tim, not some random Tim off the street.

 

Now, we want to Summon Tim. The first hard part is "Are we summoning a specific Tim?" Because there's a specific advantage for summoning specific things like your follower Tim. Let's just say we can summon some random Noteworthy Person.

 

Same calculation. It costs a minimum of 1 point. There's advantages and limitations and all of that, but the base cost is the same.

 

How about 4 random guys. That's two doublings, that costs 10 points. To Summon 4 random guys is 11 points. Although you could buy 4 different Summonings and it would only cost 4 points, oh well.

 

 

Now, it's the same for Summoning Vehicles and Bases, you have to pay its Base Points. If your vehicle has 75 base points, it would cost 15 points to Summon. However, you will have to add +1 Advantage for Amicable (unless the vehicle/base was not slavishly devoted to you) and +1 Advantage for Specific Being (unless the GM allows the summoning of "random" vehicles or bases) This makes it 45 points.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Summoning Question

 

So I'm only paying for the total cost MINUS the disads?

 

So if (Hey Tim!) gains a butt load of xp, and he is now:

 

150 pts, w/50 pts disads

 

I pay 100 to Summon Tim?

 

(There are those who call me... TIM?)

[OddHat]

Re: Summoning Question

 

So I'm only paying for the total cost MINUS the disads?

 

So if (Hey Tim!) gains a butt load of xp, and he is now:

 

150 pts, w/50 pts disads

 

I pay 100 to Summon Tim?

 

(There are those who call me... TIM?)

 

No.

 

5thER, p.222

 

Summon costs start at (the total points the target to be summoned is built on )/5, After that you can apply advantages and limits. Where those points come from (base points, disads, experience) makes no difference whatsoever.

 

Gorgomarch the short order chef is a 50 point character. It doesn't matter if he's built on 25+25, 40+10, or 0+50; to summon a 50 point character costs 50/5=10 points. After that, advantages like "Specific Being"(+1) come into play.

 

As to followers, 5thER p.81.

 

The character is only required to pay the Base Points/5 for the follower, not the total points. If your follower is built on 25+25, you only pay 25/5=5 points. This applies until the follower's total cost (base points + disads) exceeds your own, at which point you must pay 1 point per 1 point over the limit.

 

Summon has the advantage when buying massively powerful creatures, bases and vehicles that can be, well, summoned. If a 75 point character wants to summon a 750 point Demon King or Flying Castle, Summon is the way to do it. Stick it in a power framework and it's an even better deal.

 

Follower, Base or Vehicle have the advantage for beings, bases or vehicles that are always hanging around and are built on no more points than the PC. You don't have to pay for Amicable to get your follower to do as you say or to make your car go where you want, and unlike Summons they won't eventually go away after performing X number of services.

[TheJudge]

Re: Summoning Question

 

No.

 

5thER, p.222

 

Summon costs start at (the total points the target to be summoned is built on )/5, After that you can apply advantages and limits. Where those points come from (base points, disads, experience) makes no difference whatsoever.

 

Gorgomarch the short order chef is a 50 point character. It doesn't matter if he's built on 25+25, 40+10, or 0+50; to summon a 50 point character costs 50/5=10 points. After that, advantages like "Specific Being"(+1) come into play.

 

As to followers, 5thER p.81.

 

The character is only required to pay the Base Points/5 for the follower, not the total points. If your follower is built on 25+25, you only pay 25/5=5 points. This applies until the follower's total cost (base points + disads) exceeds your own, at which point you must pay 1 point per 1 point over the limit.

 

Summon has the advantage when buying massively powerful creatures, bases and vehicles that can be, well, summoned. If a 75 point character wants to summon a 750 point Demon King or Flying Castle, Summon is the way to do it. Stick it in a power framework and it's an even better deal.

 

Follower, Base or Vehicle have the advantage for beings, bases or vehicles that are always hanging around and are built on no more points than the PC. You don't have to pay for Amicable to get your follower to do as you say or to make your car go where you want, and unlike Summons they won't eventually go away after performing X number of services.

 

You are very correct on most of what you said but the last comment. Let me explain once you summon something by the rules / mechanic it stays there until destroyed or banished unless you have disadvantages on your power that ohter wise negated that fact.

 

Also FYI once a creature is summoned it cant be sent away by Draining, suppressing, dispelling est. the summon power nope it's to late should of got me before I pulled my great blue eyed dragon from the deck!

[OddHat]

Re: Summoning Question

 

You are very correct on most of what you said but the last comment. Let me explain once you summon something by the rules / mechanic it stays there until destroyed or banished unless you have disadvantages on your power that ohter wise negated that fact.

 

5thER, p.223, "Controlling Summoned Beings", and the task table on 225. You do not get to keep your summoned beings / vehicles / bases after they've fulfilled X number of tasks as defined by the GM, not even with the Slavishly Loyal advantage. You fight an EGO contest when the creature arrives to determine how many tasks you can demand, then keep fighting that contest every time the tasks are used up. They get a +1 bonus with each repeat. Eventually, when they break free, they may "flee, attack, return from whence they came, or do whatever else" they wish (p.223). Amicable creatures (Task Table, p.225) perform a given number of tasks and then may "flee, attack, return" etc. It's up to the GM what constitutes a task, and what happens after they've been used up to a summoned vehicle or base, within the bounds of common and dramatic sense and game balance.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Summoning Question

 

You are very correct on most of what you said but the last comment. Let me explain once you summon something by the rules / mechanic it stays there until destroyed or banished unless you have disadvantages on your power that ohter wise negated that fact.

 

Also FYI once a creature is summoned it cant be sent away by Draining, suppressing, dispelling est. the summon power nope it's to late should of got me before I pulled my great blue eyed dragon from the deck!

 

Oddhat's last comment is correct - he was comparing the idea of buying a Follower vs Summoning George The Butler. Buy A Follower and you don't have to buy "amicable."

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Summoning Question

 

5thER' date=' p.223, "Controlling Summoned Beings", and the task table on 225. You do not get to keep your summoned beings / vehicles / bases after they've fulfilled X number of tasks as defined by the GM, not even with the Slavishly Loyal advantage. You fight an EGO contest when the creature arrives to determine how many tasks you can demand, then keep fighting that contest every time the tasks are used up. They get a +1 bonus with each repeat. Eventually, when they break free, they may "flee, attack, return from whence they came, or do whatever else" they wish (p.223). Amicable creatures (Task Table, p.225) perform a given number of tasks and then may "flee, attack, return" etc. It's up to the GM what constitutes a task, and what happens after they've been used up to a summoned vehicle or base, within the bounds of common and dramatic sense and game balance.[/quote']

 

This is important, because "combat" constitutes 1 task per phase. However, since I didn't want my casters hanging around with monsters all the time, I also created a custom lim for Summon Monster I - IX which changed the regular task time down to one minute, instead of one hour. Otherwise you have a very summon-heavy campaign.

[Lethosos]

Re: Summoning Question

 

But if you buy a Follower, and you want to summon it, you'd have to buy a Teleport on top of the Follower costs. I think that's the bottom line here--whether or not it'll work saving costs through a Summoning mechanism.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Summoning Question

 

Nope. Summon does all the work. The follower only needs Teleport if he's arriving under his own power (-1/2). You can define any SFX you want to Summon. For example:

 

Summon Manservant: 1 butler, up to 150 points, gestures (ring bell, -1/2), incantations (demand service, -1/2), OIF (silver bell, -1/2). Extra Time (1 minute before the butler shows up)

 

He shows up no matter what -- if you're summoning a specific being (such as THE Lord Captain Thia Halmades) I still appear in place.