combat calculation

[archermoo]

Re: combat calculation

 

First, this discussion should probably be continued in its own thread, but since I'm not a Mod I can't move it so I'll reply here. Sorry again steph.

 

Nope that isn't it, but perhaps it is related. Don't forget I've been playing Hero forever. I have also played many other systems. This isn't a specific system related thing. This is something else. Something about the statement you keep making about only having 16 or 20 possible results. I think. I mean I realize that the dice can only roll certain numbers, but the issue goes beyond that... Maybe it is a mood of the game thing?

 

Let's see. I'll use the Action! System as an example, but it would work with other systems as well, but A!S uses 3d6 so it is a comparable example I think. I'm just trying to work out where my thinking is going wrong on this. I'm sure I'm missing something.

 

If I set a Target Number of 30 (this would be a legendary feat) that you have to roll over using 3d6 in the Action! System I can get there if I roll an 18 + a stat of 6 + the skill level of 7, or some combination there of. A legendary feat in Hero would require a 3 to be rolled no matter what the modifiers were. In A!S as the GM I can continue increasing the TN for a particular feat and if the character is "super" enough they can still have a chance. For example, let's say that I set the TN to 40 knowing full well that it is highly improbable, but not impossible since they are "super". The character has a stat of 9 and they have, after various traits and skill levels are added together, a skill of 14 so they have a chance to succeed if they roll an 18. A truly legendary feat that will go down in the history books. Using the same character, they are going to automatically succeed, without rolling, at anything that has a TN of 26 or less. Typical TNs are in the range of 15 to 23. So we end up with a character that is truly "super" and can handle quite a lot that is thrown at them.

 

What would be an equivalent example in a Hero system game? Maybe that is where I'm having trouble? Hm... If the character's skill is 30-, and I apply a modifier of -27 then the succeed on a 3-. The same character is always going to succeed... wait. I think this may be it. There is always a chance of failure in Hero if an 18 is rolled regardless of skill level so you always have to roll since you have to get under a number. In A!S for example, you don't have to roll if the stat+skill+3 is greater than the TN. d20 doesn't have an automatic miss anymore either. Perhaps it isn't the direction of the dice after all. It is the chance of failure! So a house rule can easily fix that. Woohoo! I think I've got it figured out now. So a character with a 30- skill will automatically succeed with that skill as long as the roll needed is 18- giving them up to a -12 modifier that they can just shrug their shoulders at.

 

As a note, anyone can hit quote, copy the text, and then start a new thread to reply to a post there rather than in the initial thread. As a mod, I could move the entire thread to a different section, but I don't think I could excise certain posts out and put them in a new thread. Or at least not easily.

 

And cool that you figured it out. It isn't a matter of it being open ended or due to needing to roll high or low, but that some other systems allow for automatic success wheras Hero in general does not.

[ghost-angel]

Re: combat calculation

 

First, this discussion should probably be continued in its own thread, but since I'm not a Mod I can't move it so I'll reply here. Sorry again steph.

 

Nope that isn't it, but perhaps it is related. Don't forget I've been playing Hero forever. I have also played many other systems. This isn't a specific system related thing. This is something else. Something about the statement you keep making about only having 16 or 20 possible results. I think. I mean I realize that the dice can only roll certain numbers, but the issue goes beyond that... Maybe it is a mood of the game thing?

 

Let's see. I'll use the Action! System as an example, but it would work with other systems as well, but A!S uses 3d6 so it is a comparable example I think. I'm just trying to work out where my thinking is going wrong on this. I'm sure I'm missing something.

 

If I set a Target Number of 30 (this would be a legendary feat) that you have to roll over using 3d6 in the Action! System I can get there if I roll an 18 + a stat of 6 + the skill level of 7, or some combination there of. A legendary feat in Hero would require a 3 to be rolled no matter what the modifiers were. In A!S as the GM I can continue increasing the TN for a particular feat and if the character is "super" enough they can still have a chance. For example, let's say that I set the TN to 40 knowing full well that it is highly improbable, but not impossible since they are "super". The character has a stat of 9 and they have, after various traits and skill levels are added together, a skill of 14 so they have a chance to succeed if they roll an 18. A truly legendary feat that will go down in the history books. Using the same character, they are going to automatically succeed, without rolling, at anything that has a TN of 26 or less. Typical TNs are in the range of 15 to 23. So we end up with a character that is truly "super" and can handle quite a lot that is thrown at them.

 

What would be an equivalent example in a Hero system game? Maybe that is where I'm having trouble? Hm... If the character's skill is 30-, and I apply a modifier of -27 then the succeed on a 3-. The same character is always going to succeed... wait. I think this may be it. There is always a chance of failure in Hero if an 18 is rolled regardless of skill level so you always have to roll since you have to get under a number. In A!S for example, you don't have to roll if the stat+skill+3 is greater than the TN. d20 doesn't have an automatic miss anymore either. Perhaps it isn't the direction of the dice after all. It is the chance of failure! So a house rule can easily fix that. Woohoo! I think I've got it figured out now. So a character with a 30- skill will automatically succeed with that skill as long as the roll needed is 18- giving them up to a -12 modifier that they can just shrug their shoulders at.

 

(I'm just to lazy to start a new thread, and move things out of context of the source posts...)

 

Few points -

 

Remove a few blocks in Hero System so it is similar to other systems: No auto success and no auto failure. Now we have only a dice range.

 

Second - rearrange your thought process on Hero Skill Rolls. It is not "Roll under this target number" it is "succeed by at least X amount."

 

This is the same as a Target Number. TN of 15 or Success by 6.

 

One of the first things I picked up on Hero was how the Skill Roll was written: 13- ... or as my brain immediately went: 13 - 3D6 = Success Rate.

 

Also - a Legendary Success in Hero, as noted in The Ultimate Skill, can be redefined as "Making any skill roll by 10 or more." Thus anyone with a base skill roll of 28 or higher and no modifiers is automatically Legendary. Now they can try some really out there things, stuff that imposes huge penalties, and still at least, succeed to a small degree.

 

(I personally don't recommend letting someone's Skill Roll reach 28- unless you're playing extraordinarily high powered games).

[Willpower]

Re: combat calculation

 

Agreed. This is probably the easiest calculation. And, as GM, you don't have to disclose the opponent's DCV. Of course, a savvy PC will be able to figure out the DCV of a target in a short time.

 

PC: Hmm... I just missed against a max DCV of 8, but I hit last phase against a DCV of 7. I wonder if that villain has a DCV of 7?

 

That is a good way to do it. I was going to mention the math was wrong, but it turns out, MY math was wrong, as I was taking the result and thinking of that as the or less needed. That was shearly out of habit from the way the book mentions it though. It would be cool to add that number to character sheets. Instead of just saying OCV, you could add the modified OCV number so you can remember it easily. Then you just have to add any levels of other modifiers.

[MitchellS]

Re: combat calculation

 

For us it was just knowing that for every 1 you rolled below 11 you hit a DCV +1 higher then your OCV, and vice-versa. It wasn't even a question of doing a calculation. The math just came naturally for us.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: combat calculation

 

I just add the characters OCV to 11, then subtract the DCV to get the final number. Very simple.

[MorpheousXO]

Re: combat calculation

 

3d6+OCV compared to 10+Modified DCV.

 

Figuring out Succeeding by half isn't as intuitive, but we figured out a quickish way in one of Gazza's threads.