Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

[Comic]

I'm thinking of setting a low-powered Champions campaign in an artificial world, a cylindrical ship so large and ancient that its inhabitants are only dimly or peripherally aware of 'a planet' as a primitive source of human life. (Somewhat akin to how some think of the caves of neanderthals or the plains of austrolopithicenes, or of Eden before the fig leaf.) The ship is a giant rotating tube with continents and (shallow) oceans lining the inner surface, which collects mass as it travels to expand, and divide, sending humanity in all directions off into space at sublight speeds.

 

To keep within the campaign setting as I envision it, there would be no Desolidification, EDM, FTL, mass-alteration or teleport powers (except with limitations to make them 'plausible' in a high-tech 'real' world).

 

Should I go to the trouble of 'building' the ship, in Star Hero terms, or focus on the society and let the players contribute to the building by proposing elements they want for their characters?

 

What would players want to have most developed in the campaign world?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

I'm thinking of setting a low-powered Champions campaign in an artificial world, a cylindrical ship so large and ancient that its inhabitants are only dimly or peripherally aware of 'a planet' as a primitive source of human life. (Somewhat akin to how some think of the caves of neanderthals or the plains of austrolopithicenes, or of Eden before the fig leaf.) The ship is a giant rotating tube with continents and (shallow) oceans lining the inner surface, which collects mass as it travels to expand, and divide, sending humanity in all directions off into space at sublight speeds.

 

To keep within the campaign setting as I envision it, there would be no Desolidification, EDM, FTL, mass-alteration or teleport powers (except with limitations to make them 'plausible' in a high-tech 'real' world).

 

Should I go to the trouble of 'building' the ship, in Star Hero terms, or focus on the society and let the players contribute to the building by proposing elements they want for their characters?

 

In a game taking place entirely on Earth, would you stat up the Earth?

 

It sounds fascinating, but I really want to hear more about the technology level, and how you envision any Powers at all working into the setting? What kinds of Powers do you envision the characters having?

[Comic]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

In a game taking place entirely on Earth, would you stat up the Earth?

 

It sounds fascinating, but I really want to hear more about the technology level, and how you envision any Powers at all working into the setting? What kinds of Powers do you envision the characters having?

 

Sooner or later, the heroes may want to leave the ship. Which, as a game setting, gives me a real advantage. They can get to space by taking an elevator ride and leaving out an airlock through the outer hull. I want the worldships to have the proportions of characters themselves.

 

As for the powers of player characters, I'm looking for things that fit within the large scale constraints of the campaign universe and setting, but with as few limits as possible on creativity. Genetically modified life forms, aliens, cybernetic organisms, energy constructs and other artificial life, highly trained normals (where training can even exceed conventional normal maxima), and a mystical element that more suggests than proves supernatural forces would all work well for characters.

 

Some examples of how powers might handle the constraints could be:

a) shrinking linked to duplication, so eight components each weighing one eighth of the main form separate and act independently;

desolidification with the limitation can't move through solid objects to represent an alien with a fluid form;

c) teleportation representing moving so fast the eye can't follow, but which still requires traveling through all points between start and finish;

d) mental powers based on hypnotism, subsonics, pheremones and electronic signals designed to interrupt or alter neural function;

e) growth or density increase by taking on nearby available mass, for example magnetic control over metal to build an exoskeleton;

f) a series of coincidences about the character might also just happen to point to some sort of pattern related to their powers.

 

I want to get a feel closer to Firefly than Voyager, more influenced by Starlost than Star Trek. A bit more Blade Runner, a bit less Logan's Run.

[Nyrath]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

The campaign premise reminds me of the very first SF RPG, a game called Metamorphosis Alpha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphosis_Alpha

http://www.metamorphosisalpha.com/

 

But the basic idea is a good one. It has been used in such SF as the TV show STARLOST, the classic Heinlein novel ORPHANS OF THE SKY, and the Brian Aldiss novel STARSHIP.

[palaskar]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Don't forget Vernor Vinge's (sp?)"Long Sun" series of books.

[Basil]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

I'm thinking of setting a low-powered Champions campaign in an artificial world' date=' a cylindrical ship so large and ancient that its inhabitants are only dimly or peripherally aware of 'a planet' as a primitive source of human life. (Somewhat akin to how some think of the caves of neanderthals or the plains of austrolopithicenes, or of Eden before the fig leaf.)[/quote']

OK, you lost me here. Are you saying the inhabitants have forgotten they're in a ship and think they're on a planet? Or that they've forgotten which planet they came from? Or they've forgotten what planets are? In any case, have they forgotten there's anything outside their ship?

 

The ship is a giant rotating tube with continents and (shallow) oceans lining the inner surface' date=' which collects mass as it travels to expand, and divide,[/quote']

How does it collect mass? Does it go into orbit around planets and ferry material up? Does it scoop up matter as it travels? If the latter, what does it do with the 99%+ that's hydrogen and helium, and how does it process the 1%- to extract what is really useful for building with?

 

sending humanity in all directions off into space at sublight speeds.

OK, how does this fit in with what you said in the first paragraph? This doesn't sound like anybody's forgetten anything.

 

Should I go to the trouble of 'building' the ship' date=' in Star Hero terms, or focus on the society and let the players contribute to the building by proposing elements they want for their characters?[/quote']

Depends on what you think the players will want/need.

 

What would players want to have most developed in the campaign world?

See my last sentence.

[Comic]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

OK' date=' you lost me here. Are you saying the inhabitants have forgotten they're in a ship and think they're on a planet? Or that they've forgotten which planet they came from? Or they've forgotten what planets are? In any case, have they forgotten there's anything outside their ship?[/quote']

Depending on the ship, the culture and the individuals, all three or any of the three or none of the above. They've gone far enough that returning to their original planet -- if they had the skills to find it (which they might) -- would be well beyond their means. They certainly don't think of planets as 'normal' for life, and believe ships such as theirs are the natural order.

How does it collect mass? Does it go into orbit around planets and ferry material up? Does it scoop up matter as it travels? If the latter, what does it do with the 99%+ that's hydrogen and helium, and how does it process the 1%- to extract what is really useful for building with?

Finding and exploiting sources of mass is the major preoccupation of the ships, much like 'orbiting the Sun' is the major preoccupation of Earth. As each source of mass is different, different techniques may be used. Many worldships might take centuries or millennia orbiting planets or mining asteroid belts ferrying mass back to themselves with shuttles. Some would cast out nanofiber magnetic nets in deep space to harvest sparse mass.

The universe is, sadly, largely made up of mass inappropriate to structuring a biosphere, which is where fusion and fission come in. Little halflife problems are overcome by filtering and storage until decay leaves the products safe for use.

OK, how does this fit in with what you said in the first paragraph? This doesn't sound like anybody's forgetten anything.

The ships as communities will retain (usually, barring complete social breakdown) memory and plan intrinsic to their design and routine. Much like an AI, only more inherent in the way everything works than programmed in any one system. Plus, even if there is a complete breakdown, the ships are fault tolerant enough to preserve life for an indeterminate period. Long enough for human society to rediscover its lost technologies.

Depends on what you think the players will want/need.

 

...

 

See my last sentence.

Fair enough. I could think for myself, I suppose.

 

But that's so much work, and ideas stolen from the board seem so much more original and brilliant than my own.

[Markdoc]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Don't forget Vernor Vinge's (sp?)"Long Sun" series of books.

 

Gene Wolfe - an interesting, if somewhat odd series. Really well done, though.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

I played with the idea of a fantasy game set in a generation ship, whose inhabitants had forgotten they were on an artificial construct a while back (inspired, in fact, by books like Aldiss' Non-Stop and Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun). The reasons were simple - you can design it as you like, you have plenty of rationales for odd structures and tunnels to explore. In addition, if the "monsters" are biological or biomechanical constructs, you can have a traditional fantasy "monster-heavy" environment without worrying too much about ecology.

 

My original plan had been that the generation ship's AI (the ship would be an O'Neill cylinder like Rama, with a central core containing the "sun") was equipped to make constructs to service the ship and keep it running even in the face of human social collapse: adding the idea that the ship harvests mass to build new ships gives an even better reason.

 

In addition, I had assumed a backup plan, whereby in the event of a social collapse the ship would attempt to stimulate human cultural development by "stressing" the existing colonist's culture, working on the assumption that stress such as a need for defence would accelerate the adoption of technology and also give the humans a common enemy to prevent human vs human war. Hence, making "monsters" for them to fight and leaving clues about in the form of documents or artifacts for "adventurers" to find, providing culturally-relevant clues to spur development. The idea being that once the humans were advanced enough to overcome the ship's defences (which were intentionally not intended to be totally lethal) they would be technologically advanced enough to fathom the ship's workings and communicate meaningfully with the ship's AI again. It also (not coincidentally) provides a rationale for an "adventurer" class - scouts, protectors of society and discoverers of lost knowledge.

 

The original colony ship plan went off the rails in the distant past when a faction that developed in the colony attempted to organise a rebellion by seeding the computer network with a virus allowing them to take over the AI. Instead, they succeeded in only in severing the AI from the network, crippling it and plunging the ship into chaos - leaving most of the ship without power, without light or other services. 99% of the population soon died. By the time the AI recovered enough to start repairs (centuries later), the humans had rebuilt multiple isolated primitive cultures, but in several places, the severe inbreeding had led to the rapid development of psychic powers (which the inhabitants think of as magic, and which stands in for magic in this setting). Cue the "culture stimulation" program, plus religious cults bult around the day the lights came back on in the interior, which greatly stimulated exploration and a new "cultural renaissance"

 

In such a setting I'd never bother to stat out the ship itself - I'd assume almost limitless resources, but not active planning for the AI: it's resourceful, but not imaginative. It's also lightly crazy in that much of its former databanks are inaccessible or destroyed. I would stat out some of the tool's at the ships command: what kind of monsters it can build, working with the banks of human and earth animal species gene plasm, how much damage a laser does, that kind of thing, but that's just a basic bestiary, and how psychic powers work and what they can do - but that's also basic setting information.

 

Other than that, you just need a map and you're good to go.

 

cheers, Mark

[dbsousa]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Here is a game I ran, briefly. (Please note that the section on Enlightened Beasts was heavily cribbed from Keith Curtis' Savage Worlds)

 

What the text does not mention is that the world is an oversized O'Neill Cylinder, one of millions orbiting the sun, and operating on autopilot for hundreds of years...

[Comic]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Geography.

 

I'm planning for the ship to differ from the classic O'Neill architecture. It has the size, so I'm taking advantage of it.

 

To confine the continents somewhat without overt fencing, there will be an arctic zone running the length of the tube, and a tropic on the opposite end of the diameter. Oceans and freshwater rivers will split the continents. This will segregate animal populations by temperature and physical barriers to avoid invasive species issues. Other than people, who can use the ice bridge to travel the length of the world.

 

Due to centrifugal forces, everyone in the tube will be able to discern north/south by turning their head, which will be a noticeable but not motion-sickness-inducing sensation (unless you spin in place and get dizzy).

 

The day/night cycle will be holographic, including a non-blinding, non cancer-causing simulated sun making its way overhead in a 12 hour phase of a 24 hour cycle. The hours of daylight will be holographically regulated to match Earth for each temperate zone, to help animals and plants maintain seasonal patterns.

 

By night, constellations and star fields will be projected as an educational tool.

 

Clouds, rain and weather effects will be generated magnetohydrodynamically in the microgravity of the core, and the atmospheric pressure can be adjusted to conserve vital resources and balance the world's life support.

 

One day I'll get ambitious and use Google Earth to project a view of what the worldship's sky would look like from the inside. On a clear day, you can see the far diameter.

[dbsousa]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Here is a good description of an O'Neill Cylinder and the effects of centripedal force on weather and movement.

In my game, I imposed a -2OCV for projectile weapons, which could be negated by anyone who could brace, or anyone who was especially sensitive to the spin (Combat Bump of Direction, +2 Penalty Skill Level, 3 points)

[Tom Carman]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Here is a good description of an O'Neill Cylinder and the effects of centripedal force on weather and movement.

In my game, I imposed a -2OCV for projectile weapons, which could be negated by anyone who could brace, or anyone who was especially sensitive to the spin (Combat Bump of Direction, +2 Penalty Skill Level, 3 points)

 

It might be more appropriate to change the -2 OCV to a -2 Rmod. The spin shouldn't (noticeably) throw aim off at close range.

[dbsousa]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

It might be more appropriate to change the -2 OCV to a -2 Rmod. The spin shouldn't (noticeably) throw aim off at close range.

 

That is in fact, what I meant, thank you...

[Comic]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Nice.I'll have to work out the math for scaling up three+ orders of magnitude, but a handy link.I expect the Rmod would be more interesting to apply differentially with direction, if I can work out a mechanism for it.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Here is a game I ran' date=' briefly. (Please note that the section on Enlightened Beasts was heavily cribbed from Keith Curtis' Savage Worlds)[/quote']

 

While I appreciate the plug, It's Savage Earth, not to be confused with Savage Worlds, the award-winning game from Pinnacle Entertainment Group.

 

Keith "Where credit is due" Curtis

[Comic]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

Important for building high quality worlds, to steal one's ideas from high quality minds.

 

Of course, I'll need a few lowbrow places on the worldships, so I remain open to suggestions.

 

For instance, crew.

 

What would convince you to willingly move from the planet to such a worldship?

[Basil]

Re: Bernal Sphere, O'Neill Cylinder, Turing Craft..

 

For instance, crew.

 

What would convince you to willingly move from the planet to such a worldship?

 

"The fact the last half-dozen to dozen generations of my forebearers lived in this "inhabsat" {NB: my own word, but free for anyone's use}, and we've been moving deeper and deeper into the Oort Cloud for all/most of that time (ever since my great-great-great-...-grandparents (and their contemporaries that founded this inhabsat) split off from a bunch of stay-at-homes that wanted to stay in the Kuiper Belt). I mean, what's a star but a gravitational "reference point"? That being so, what difference is it which is used?"

 

"What, some of my great-great-great-...-grandchildren may split off and move inwards to [destination star's] Kuiper Belt. Well, hell, so what? There's always more room; more resources (esp. for volitiles) if you're willing to push your inhabsat in the right direction."

 

 

Seriously: in a universe where relativity cannot be "gotten around" I don't see any way that Earth (or a consortium of "major planets") will be the ones to go to other stars. It would be, I am convinced, some of those whose inhabitations are already so far from Sol that it wouldn't require much to just drift off to another star. If their descendants even bother to moving in "close to" the star, it will be a few generations later.

 

Frankly, given reliable, efficient fusion power, and the large amounts of volitiles available in the Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belt, there's bloody little the near vicinity of a star has to offer.