Combat Flowchart

[Gemphyre]

A few weeks ago, there was a discussion where someone brought up a possibility of a combat flowchart. As of yet, I have not seen any examples of one that someone has posted, although some combat tools were given. Therefore, I have put together a draft of a combat flowchart that includes most of the optional rules and when I think that they would occur.

 

It is in Word format, so almost everyone should be able to read it. There are no colors to get screwed up (yet), so there should be no problems with readability. Please give me your thoughts on how it could be improved, and point out what I may have done wrong. Note also that I am using ONLY the core rules, and assuming that the GM knows enough about the options to use the appropriate tables. (i.e. I am not reproducing the Hit Location, Bleeding, or Impairment tables, among others.)

 

I look forward to hearing how I could improve this by some of the experts on this forum.

 

Gemphyre

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Very nice.

 

You might want to move the Hit Location question in front of the Killing Stun multiple though.

[Gemphyre]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Very nice.

 

Thank you.

 

You might want to move the Hit Location question in front of the Killing Stun multiple though.

 

I have never played in a game that uses Hit Locations. The lack of experience in using some of the optional rules is why I am asking for advice.

 

Looking back through the 5th Ed. rules, I see what you were referring to. Somewhere along the line, I misread something about the Hit Locations, apparently. The Stun and Body multipliers are applied at different times, and that through me off. The Stun multipliers are applied BEFORE the defenses are accounted for, and the Body multipliers are applied AFTER the defenses are counted for. I missed where they were applied at different times.

 

Gemphyre

[archermoo]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

I have never played in a game that uses Hit Locations. The lack of experience in using some of the optional rules is why I am asking for advice.

 

Looking back through the 5th Ed. rules, I see what you were referring to. Somewhere along the line, I misread something about the Hit Locations, apparently. The Stun and Body multipliers are applied at different times, and that through me off. The Stun multipliers are applied BEFORE the defenses are accounted for, and the Body multipliers are applied AFTER the defenses are counted for. I missed where they were applied at different times.

 

Gemphyre

 

If you are curious, the reason for the difference is that the STUNx of a killing attack is how you determine how much STUN it does at all, and so is based off the total amount of BODY rolled on the attack. The BODYx on the other hand is the amount that the BODY of an attack (killing or normal) gets modified when hitting that hit location. And since damage that doesn't make it through defenses isn't really hitting that location, it doesn't get doubled until the defenses are applied.

[AgentX]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

I can't download the file? Everytime I try to it asks me to log in again.

 

Heh. Anyway to fix this?

[Gemphyre]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

I can't download the file? Everytime I try to it asks me to log in again.

 

Heh. Anyway to fix this?

 

Check your browser and firewall settings, and then get some site help is all I can suggest. I tried downloading the file myself, and I had no problems. It downloaded with a problem and immediately.

 

 

Without knowing a lot more information that I have available, both about your browser settings, your firewall settings, and the Hero Games site settings, I cannot help you.

 

Gemphyre

[Checkmate]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

You might want to include if the defender Blocks

[redner]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Here's my version using my understanding of 6th edition.

 

-[ATTACH=CONFIG]37355[/ATTACH]

[Tasha]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

6e2 107 "A character at or below 9 BODY is dying." "Death occurs when, either due to attacks or "bleeding to death" the character has lost twice his original BODY"

 

Also when a character is at 0 or less Body a Character takes 1 body per turn at the end of Segment 12. It is commonly called "bleeding to death" even though it may have little to do with blood loss.

 

There's a chart at the beginning at each chapter in 6e2 which covers the flow of combat and how to do a specific task. It would be a great place to start a set of flow charts.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Hmm. I don't know. All those pages of logic almost make it seem more complex than it actually is, which is usually not the intent of using a flowchart. Did you forget to list where defenses are applied?

 

Hmm. One interesting thing mention of the Hit Location ordering brought to mind, though, is the effect of Hit Location on Knockback. Currently there isn't any such interaction, but does it make sense that someone is knocked back many meters, through walls, etc., if they are hit in the hand? I suppose the question doesn't come up very often because the games that use Hit Locations (generally heroic) are often mutually exclusive with the games that use Knockback (generally superheroic).

 

I can imagine something like a Knockback and a Knockdown multiplier for each location. Something like:

 

Roll  Location    KD    KB    
3-5   Head        x2   x1/2   
 6    Hands      x1/2  x1/4  
7-8   Arms       x1/2  x1/2  
 9    Shoulders   x1    x1    
10-11  Chest      x3/2  x3/2
12    Stomach    x3/2  x3/2
13    Vitals     x3/2   x1   
14    Thighs     x3/2   x1   
15-16  Legs        x2   x1/2
17-18  Feet        x2   x1/4

 

What I was thinking is that you'd consider the Knockdown/Knockback effects separately. Using the same nd6 roll for Knockback Dice, you'd apply the KD (Knockdown) multiplier to the Body before subtracting the dice and Knockback Resistance to see if you are knocked off your feet; that's in games that use either Knockdown or Knockback. Then for games that use actual Knockback, if you are knocked down, you determine actual Knockback distance by using the ORIGINAL Body (not with the KD multiplier applied) and subtracting the Knockback Dice and Knockback Resistance, then applying the KB multiplier to see how far you actually travel.

 

The idea behind this is that some places (e.g. head) affect your balance more than others, or are so close to your center of gravity (e.g. chest and stomach) that you're likely to really be moved by something that hits you there. Other places (e.g. hands) aren't likely to move you or affect your balance much at all. And yet others (e.g. legs and feet) offer either a foundation or enough of a direct lever-arm that you're very likely to be knocked over, but won't go flying very far.

 

Example #1: Hoichima is hit in the head by an attack that does 8 Body before defenses. The Knockback dice roll plus KBR is 9. Head has a KD multiplier of x3/2, so he is definitely going to be knocked prone (8 x 3/2 - 9 = 12 - 9 = 3, which is positive). But he suffers no actual Knockback because 8 - 9 < 0, so he is ONLY knocked prone, not sent flying and not taking any Knockback damage.

 

Example #2: Federico the Flaming Flyer is hit in the left foot for 6 Body before defenses. The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR is 4. Feet have a KD multiplier of x2, se he is knocked prone (6 x 2 - 4 = 12 - 4 = 8 > 0). In addition, the KB multiplier is x1/4 and for Knockback we get (6-4) x 1/4 = 2/4 = 1/2 (1m). Not enough to move him much, but he's backed up a tad and sent sprawling. Even in mid-air that makes sense because the feet are so far from his center of gravity (so he's sent spinning and isn't really pushed back very far).

 

Example #3: Artichoke Man is hit in the right hand for 12 Body before defenses. The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR is 8. Since the KD multipler for hands is x1/2, Artichoke Man isn't knocked off his feet (12 x 1/2 - 8 = 6 - 8 < 0) and we don't consider Knockback distance at all.

 

Example #4: Artichoke Man's poor hand is hit AGAIN for 24 Body before defenses (hopefully he'll still HAVE a hand at the end of the day). The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR is 7. Applying the KD multiplier, we see that AM is definitely knocked prone (24 x 1/2 - 7 = 12 - 7 > 0). But will that chop to the hand send him flying backward through walls? Applying the hand KB multiplier of x1/4, we get (24 - 7) x1/4 = 17 x 1/4 = 4 (8m). He'll go flying, but not nearly so far as you'd normally expect from that kind of blow.

 

Example #5: Mr. Indispensable is hit square in the chest for 10 Body before defenses. The Knockback Dice roll plus KBR roll 11. Unfortunately for Mr. I., the KD multiplier for the chest is x3/2, so he's knocked off his feet despite all that KBR (10 x 3/2 - 11 = 15 - 11 > 0). However, he's not sent flying (10 - 11 < 0). If the KB Dice roll plus KBR had been only 8, he would have been moved a bit (10-8) x3/2 = 2 x3/2 = 3 (6m).

[GAZZA]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

As long as we're talking about Hit Location - anyone besides me think this got overlooked in 6e? Killing Attacks in 6e do 1/2d6 STUN multiplier (average 2) whereas in earlier editions it was 1d6-1 (average 2.667). The big clue that something got missed is that the hit location table is exactly the same as it was before - and the average STUN multiplier if you're using Hit Locations is 2.87 (619/216) - acceptably close in 5e, but way more than normal in 6e. I suppose one could argue that the STUN lottery isn't really as prevalent in a game where you're using Hit Locations - indeed, Hit Locations were previously touted as the "fix" to the STUN lottery - but still, I would have expected with the general STUN reduction of killing attacks in 6e that the Hit Location table would have been revised.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Yeah, that seems like a pretty common viewpoint, and I can't say I disagree that the inconsistency is disturbing. However, we've been over that one several times already and apparently it was by design rather than oversight.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Combat Flowchart

 

Once again, it was by design and not an oversight. The issue was raised in discussions with Steve long before 6e was completed, and he made the decision to change the stun multiple die but not the multiples on the hit location chart.

 

Where hit locations are used, there are also multipliers to stun from normal attacks, and body from both kinds of attacks. In my experience, this better balances the KA with the normal attack.