Richard Logue Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 My player has a martial artist character in a superhero genre campaign He has a 20 STR... 4d6 damage, 2 End cost He has Martial Strike maneuver... +2d6 damage He has +2 HTH Damage Classes... +2d6 damage No problems so far. He throws a martial strike for 8d6 damage with an End cost of 2. Got it. Now we add this.... Chi Punch: Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (22 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) ... and I start to get confused. Descriptively, he charges up his martial arts with his chi for extra pow. What's the total here? Do they all combine for 11d6 damage, Armor Piercing? Or do they not combine? Does the Increased Endurance cost apply to the STR End as well? I kind of think it would, but maybe not. I know the rules of the game fairly well, but this is one of those grey areas for me that make me wonder how well I really know them. Thanks! Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekkidcarpenter Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs You will doubtless get other reply's with page numbers etc., but here's my understanding of HA with Advantages. You can't add more than the base DC of the HA to th attack without also buying the Advantage for the other effects that add to it. So you can do 6d6 AP with the HA (3d6 for strength and 3d6 for the attack) or 8d6 with your martial strike. If you buy AP for your strength AND your martial strike (see UMA for the cost of this) then you can do 11d6 AP HA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Logue Posted July 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs Might it be better to just buy a Naked Advantage AP based on the active cost value of his STR plus the +2 HTH DC? And the Increased End Limitation? Add that to the Naked Advantage... but does it increase the End for STR as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs My player has a martial artist character in a superhero genre campaign He has a 20 STR... 4d6 damage, 2 End cost He has Martial Strike maneuver... +2d6 damage He has +2 HTH Damage Classes... +2d6 damage No problems so far. He throws a martial strike for 8d6 damage with an End cost of 2. Got it. Now we add this.... Chi Punch: Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (22 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) ... and I start to get confused. Descriptively, he charges up his martial arts with his chi for extra pow. What's the total here? Do they all combine for 11d6 damage, Armor Piercing? Or do they not combine? Does the Increased Endurance cost apply to the STR End as well? I kind of think it would, but maybe not. I know the rules of the game fairly well, but this is one of those grey areas for me that make me wonder how well I really know them. Thanks! Richard If the HA did not have the Armor Piercing Advantage then they would combine for 11d6. However, because of the AP Advantage only 15 STR can be added to the HA (The Martial Arts DC's still add normally) So the total attack would do 3d6 (HA) + 3d6 (STR) + 4d6 (MA+Extra DC's) = 10d6 AP costing 7 END (6 for the AP HA and 1 for 15 STR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs Might it be better to just buy a Naked Advantage AP based on the active cost value of his STR plus the +2 HTH DC? And the Increased End Limitation? Add that to the Naked Advantage... but does it increase the End for STR as well? Advantaged HA's are almost always going to be better than Naked Advantages on STR especially when combined with Martial Arts and Movement Based Maneuvers. The damage adding rules in 5er are arguably the most complex part of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekkidcarpenter Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs If the HA did not have the Armor Piercing Advantage then they would combine for 11d6. However' date=' because of the AP Advantage only 15 STR can be added to the HA (The Martial Arts DC's still add normally) So the total attack would do 3d6 (HA) + 3d6 (STR) + 4d6 (MA+Extra DC's) = 10d6 AP costing 7 END (6 for the AP HA and 1 for 15 STR).[/quote'] Okay, if this is right then let's munchkinize. Old Wang Li has a special pair of magical gauntlets that have really little demon teeth imbedded in them. Wang is old and weak (5 Str) but REALLY good at MA (+5 DC). Gauntlets--Hand-To-Hand Attack +1d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (16 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), IIF (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4) +1d6 from Str, +4d6 Off Strike, +5DC = 11d6 autofire, AP (x2) for 0 End. Yeah, I'll pay <40 points (the combined costs of the DC, etc) for 160+ AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs Okay, if this is right then let's munchkinize. Old Wang Li has a special pair of magical gauntlets that have really little demon teeth imbedded in them. Wang is old and weak (5 Str) but REALLY good at MA (+5 DC). Gauntlets--Hand-To-Hand Attack +1d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (16 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), IIF (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4) +1d6 from Str, +4d6 Off Strike, +5DC = 11d6 autofire, AP (x2) for 0 End. Yeah, I'll pay <40 points (the combined costs of the DC, etc) for 160+ AP. Well, this kind of question was put to Steve Long a couple of years ago (see link below) and he responded that "there is no provision in the rules for the Advantages on the HA factoring into the equation". It's basically GM's call territory. Yet another MA-related question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Logue Posted July 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs Thanks, the both of you! I checked that link that went to an old (2005) question Zornwil had for SL, and from there I referenced the book which referenced page 408 which really cleared it up for me. "the character only uses his STR up to the unmodified Active Point value of the HA" So as long as the player doesn't use his full 20 STR on the Martial Strike, he can utilize the AP HA with it. And the bonus damage from the maneuver and the DCs add on top of it. And yes, it can be munchkinned if the GM doesn't not allow it somehow. Suggestions on how to do that would make for interesting debate. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs And here is the MA package to use if you decide to munchkin it Legsweep Martial Throw Martial Block A small MP (25 points) of mainly HA with about 10 slots +2 DCV will basicaly give you the equivilent of every HtH MA manuver in the book, plus the freeky stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs Okay, if this is right then let's munchkinize. Old Wang Li has a special pair of magical gauntlets that have really little demon teeth imbedded in them. Wang is old and weak (5 Str) but REALLY good at MA (+5 DC). Gauntlets--Hand-To-Hand Attack +1d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (16 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), IIF (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4) +1d6 from Str, +4d6 Off Strike, +5DC = 11d6 autofire, AP (x2) for 0 End. Yeah, I'll pay <40 points (the combined costs of the DC, etc) for 160+ AP. Legal build. I wouldn't allow it if I was the gm, but it is legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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