Cell Phone Ly

[Sean Waters]

Been thinking about the 'self only' limitation. According to the book, it is a limtiation on both TARGET and RANGE, although the two generally go hand in hand (unless you have multiform and a generous GM).

 

Self only has the same limitation value as 'No Range'.

 

Question: for a RANGED POWER, is it appropriate (in your view) to allow BOTH Self Only and No Range limitations on a single power?

[schir1964]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Uh oh!

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Dust Raven]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Been thinking about the 'self only' limitation. According to the book, it is a limtiation on both TARGET and RANGE, although the two generally go hand in hand (unless you have multiform and a generous GM).

 

Self only has the same limitation value as 'No Range'.

 

Question: for a RANGED POWER, is it appropriate (in your view) to allow BOTH Self Only and No Range limitations on a single power?

If the Power is normally Ranged, yes. Personally, I can't think of any Ranged Powers I'd put Self Only on though.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

If the Power is normally Ranged' date=' yes. Personally, I can't think of any Ranged Powers I'd put Self Only on though.[/quote']

 

Perhaps a triggered dispel: I shrug off your curses!

 

OK, not going to come up that much...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

I wonder if No Range; Self Only Mental Illusions would fool Telepathy and Mind Scan at the surface thoughts level.

[archermoo]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Question: for a RANGED POWER, is it appropriate (in your view) to allow BOTH Self Only and No Range limitations on a single power?

 

It can be. The 5ER even specifically mentions it in the description of the Limitations for Change Environment on p138, and for Force Wall on p182.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

It can be. The 5ER even specifically mentions it in the description of the Limitations for Change Environment on p138' date=' and for Force Wall on p182.[/quote']

Ah yes. I knew there must be. I just couldn't think of them.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

I wonder if No Range; Self Only Mental Illusions would fool Telepathy and Mind Scan at the surface thoughts level.

I've always used Shape Shift vs Mental Group for that. At least, unless the character wanted to have real delusions.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

I wonder if No Range; Self Only Mental Illusions would fool Telepathy and Mind Scan at the surface thoughts level.

Yes, but only if you're using the Telepathy or Mind Scan on yourself. A Mental Illusion with "Self Only" means you're only deluding yourself.

 

To fool another with Mental Illusions, it has to target their mind, and would then fool even their mental senses.

 

But of course you could have the limitation "Only To Change How the Target Mentally Perceives My Mind," which isn't quite the same as "Self Only."

 

A better way to do this would be as Dust Raven says, using Shape Shift to the Mental Group. Though I would prefer to use Images to the Mental group instead.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Yes' date=' but only if you're using the Telepathy or Mind Scan on yourself. A Mental Illusion with "Self Only" means you're only deluding yourself.[/quote']

 

Ooh. Good point. But then if you're deluding yourself you surface thoughts have obviously changed to match that delusion, thus going back to the original point - someone's not reading what you would really be thinking. (for the record: I would use Shape Shift: Mental Group too - it was simply a thought exercise.)

 

 

On the flip side - we tend to look at things from a beneficial point of view - meaning something a Player would purchase for their Character.

 

No Range; Self Only on a number of Powers could be a cursed item in a Fantasy Hero game - the Mental Delusions up above for instance.

 

Something the GM would build to "give" to the Players. Best in Heroic games where Players can get equipment (seemingly harmless equipment at that) for free.

 

Or for a baseline on the Active Cost in any game in case the Characters need to use Lift Curse (Dispel) or some other application to remove the suddenly harmful effects.

 

Not all Power builds are beneficial after all.

[Wolfgar]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Only in very rare cases. Since in 90% of cases Self-Only can't be used at range anyway, then it seems redundant. Not limiting, not worth anything.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

A self delusion power.

 

That opens up SO many possibilities....

[SteveZilla]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Perhaps a triggered dispel: I shrug off your curses!

 

OK, not going to come up that much...

 

By that reasoning (being Self Only), the curse would have had to already taken effect before it could be dispelled. But since it triggers right when it takes effect, I doubt that it could make a difference mechanically.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

By that reasoning (being Self Only)' date=' the curse would have had to already taken effect before it could be dispelled. But since it triggers right when it takes effect, I doubt that it could make a difference mechanically.[/quote']

 

Depends: the curse could be a UAA self only mental illusion

[archermoo]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Ooh. Good point. But then if you're deluding yourself you surface thoughts have obviously changed to match that delusion, thus going back to the original point - someone's not reading what you would really be thinking. (for the record: I would use Shape Shift: Mental Group too - it was simply a thought exercise.)

 

 

On the flip side - we tend to look at things from a beneficial point of view - meaning something a Player would purchase for their Character.

 

No Range; Self Only on a number of Powers could be a cursed item in a Fantasy Hero game - the Mental Delusions up above for instance.

 

Something the GM would build to "give" to the Players. Best in Heroic games where Players can get equipment (seemingly harmless equipment at that) for free.

 

Or for a baseline on the Active Cost in any game in case the Characters need to use Lift Curse (Dispel) or some other application to remove the suddenly harmful effects.

 

Not all Power builds are beneficial after all.

 

As a note, the official ruling on what Self Only does with Mental Illusions is on p202 of 5ER. It is a -1 limitation that only allows the user of MI to change their own appearance WRT their victim.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

Depends: the curse could be a UAA self only mental illusion

 

Very cute. But not only is that not a valid build, it is a waste of points.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

An important problem (that seems to crop up a lot) is semantics. "Self Only" really means two different things, depending on the context.

 

1) It could mean "Only I can benefit from the effects of the power," such as Healing, Self Only - I Heal myself, but I can't heal others.

 

or

 

2) It could mean "The power only directly deals with/pertains to me," such as Images, Self Only - I make an Image to cover myself, I can make myself look different, but anyone looking at me sees the Image. I can't make Images over someone or something else, or make Images away from my body. In fact that's a better way of phrasing it: this second meaning of "Self Only" means "The power can only emanate from my body."

 

And yes, "Self Only" and "No Range" are two different things. The former is more limiting than the latter, and therefore "Self Only" should either be a bigger limitation than "No Range" or a power should be allowed to take both (assuming the power is Ranged by default).

 

For example

 

a) Force Wall could normally be used to englobe someone else at range (either to trap him or to protect him).

With "No Range," I could still englobe others as long as they are in my hex or an adjacent hex.

c) With "Self Only," I can't englobe others at all, only myself.

 

© should cost less than (, which should cost less than (a). If "Self Only" and "No Range" are both -1/2 limitations in this case, it must be that © can take both.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Cell Phone Ly

 

An important problem (that seems to crop up a lot) is semantics. "Self Only" really means two different things, depending on the context.

 

1) It could mean "Only I can benefit from the effects of the power," such as Healing, Self Only - I Heal myself, but I can't heal others.

 

or

 

2) It could mean "The power only directly deals with/pertains to me," such as Images, Self Only - I make an Image to cover myself, I can make myself look different, but anyone looking at me sees the Image. I can't make Images over someone or something else, or make Images away from my body. In fact that's a better way of phrasing it: this second meaning of "Self Only" means "The power can only emanate from my body."

 

And yes, "Self Only" and "No Range" are two different things. The former is more limiting than the latter, and therefore "Self Only" should either be a bigger limitation than "No Range" or a power should be allowed to take both (assuming the power is Ranged by default).

 

For example

 

a) Force Wall could normally be used to englobe someone else at range (either to trap him or to protect him).

With "No Range," I could still englobe others as long as they are in my hex or an adjacent hex.

c) With "Self Only," I can't englobe others at all, only myself.

 

© should cost less than (, which should cost less than (a). If "Self Only" and "No Range" are both -1/2 limitations in this case, it must be that © can take both.

 

This is a good explanation of things. Rep to you.