MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

[Cardinal]

I was looking at Tiger Lilly from VVV. She has purchased two fighting batons, as well as having Rapid Attack and Two Weapon Fighting.

 

Now looking at this combination, I imagine that her options are as follows:

1. Straight up Martial attack

2. Rapid Attack of 2 or more martial attacks (with penalties)

3. Attack with Fighting Baton (martial attack plus HTH damage)

4. MPA of 2 Fighting Batons (each a martial attack plus HTH damage)

5. Rapid Attack of 2 or more strikes with Fighting Batons (each a martial attack plus HTH damage)

6. Rapid Attack of 2 or more sets of MPA of with two fighting batons (each a martial attack plus HTH damage)

 

#6 seems like a particularly nasty tactic (especially if she decides to wear herself out with her hyperaccelerated normal strike for each). For -4 OCV and 1/2 DCV TL could land 6 strikes for 8 End (2 End for Str (only pay str once a phase), 6x1 End for fighting batons). Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Thanks for your help.

[Zed-F]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

I don't think you can sweep (rapid attack) an MPA. It's either an MPA, a sweep, or neither.

[Oruncrest]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

I was looking at Tiger Lilly from VVV. She has purchased two fighting batons, as well as having Rapid Attack and Two Weapon Fighting.

 

Now looking at this combination, I imagine that her options are as follows:

1. Straight up Martial attack

2. Rapid Attack of 2 or more martial attacks (with penalties)

3. Attack with Fighting Baton (martial attack plus HTH damage)

4. MPA of 2 Fighting Batons (each a martial attack plus HTH damage)

5. Rapid Attack of 2 or more strikes with Fighting Batons (each a martial attack plus HTH damage)

6. Rapid Attack of 2 or more sets of MPA of with two fighting batons (each a martial attack plus HTH damage)

 

#6 seems like a particularly nasty tactic (especially if she decides to wear herself out with her hyperaccelerated normal strike for each). For -4 OCV and 1/2 DCV TL could land 6 strikes for 8 End (2 End for Str (only pay str once a phase), 6x1 End for fighting batons). Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Thanks for your help.

I think that you're misconstruing what Rapid Attack and Two-Weapon Fighting do. Rapid Attack isn't a combat maneuver, it's a skill that enables you to do a Sweep as a half-phase action. Two-Weapon Fighting means that the first two attacks of a Sweep maneuver suffer no combat penalties for either using a weapon in your off hand or for the first attack in a Sweep. As for Multiple Power Attacks; as pointed out in this post (send Oddhat some Rep, I've still got to spread some around), so long as Tiger Lily has purchased both powers separately (not having seen her writeup, I'll assume that she purchased one fighting baton with it's full game effects and then purchased a second one for 5 points), she can use them both in a single attack. So her options end up looking like this.

 

1) Tiger Lily can use one of her batons in a straight up Martial Attack on one opponent with no penalties.

2) Tiger Lily can use both of her batons in Multiple Power Martial Attack on one opponent with no penalties (due to her Two-Handed Fighting Skill).

3) Tiger Lily can use one of her batons in a Sweeping Martial Attack as a half phase action (due to her Rapid Attack Skill) on one opponent with no OCV penalties on the second strike and -2 for each strike thereafter (due to her Two-Handed Fighting Skill). DCV is halved because of the Sweep, though.

4) Tiger Lily can use one of her batons in a Sweeping Martial Attack as a half phase action (due to her Rapid Attack Skill) on multiple opponents with no OCV penalties on the second strike and -2 for each strike thereafter (due to her Two-Handed Fighting Skill). DCV is halved because of the Sweep, though.

5) Tiger Lily can use both of her batons in a Sweeping Multiple Power Martial Attack (both of the batons strike as a sequence and require only one roll to hit with no penalties) as a half phase action (due to her Rapid Attack Skill) on one opponent with no OCV penalties on the second sequence of strikes and -2 for each strike thereafter (due to her Two-Handed Fighting Skill). DCV is halved because of the Sweep, though.

6) Tiger Lily can use both of her batons in a Sweeping Multiple Power Martial Attack (both of the batons strike as a sequence and require only one roll to hit with no penalties) as a half phase action (due to her Rapid Attack Skill) on multiple opponents with no OCV penalties on the second sequence of strikes and -2 for each sequence thereafter (due to her Two-Handed Fighting Skill). DCV is halved because of the Sweep, though.

 

And yes, #5 seems especially nasty, but don't forget that Tiger Lilys DCV is halved. if her opponent isn't KO'd in that first attack (or if her opponent has an ally nearby that wasn't hit) Lily's gonna be a sitting duck.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

Don't forget that in 5ER, Two weapon fighting also reduces the DCV penalty to a simple -2 rather than halving it as normal for a sweep.(page 73)

[Oruncrest]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

Whoof.

 

There goes my belief that everything I'd written above was actually balanced.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

Whoof.

 

There goes my belief that everything I'd written above was actually balanced.

 

Yeah, I know. That is a huge change. I have a character in an upcoming game taking advantage of that build - The GM knows the effect, and wants to see just how unbalancing it can be.

 

A modern action game, but my character is heck on wheels with a sword (the RA and TWF).

[Psylint]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

So let me get this straight. If I wanted to be completely munchkin I could

 

Purchase, rapid attack, two weapon fighting, 4 HKAs, martial arts, stretching, extra limbs and end up with potentially: (Just think Kali or Spiral)

 

Sweeping 3 times with 4 unblockable (indirect), HKAs with the first 8 at full OCV, the last 4 at -2 OCV (I understand that I'm only rolling 3 times to hit, once for the first 4, and again for the 2nd, with the third being at -2), and only a -2 DCV penalty (assuming all attacks used martial strike.) and paying endurance for strength only once?

 

So that's potentially (assuming I don't miss and forfeit the 2nd or 3rd "sweep") 12*4d6 Killing dice of damage, in one half phase action for a -2 DCV penalty.

 

Heck, I'll do it at 1/2 DCV penalty; if I can hurt it at all, after 12 strikes, it's not gonna be in any shape to fight back.

 

That should kill some people.

 

Peace

[Oruncrest]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

For one thing, I don't think that stretching allows for the 'unblockable' aspect of indirect (Stretching is treated as partially Indirect, as I recall).

 

Also, with a MPA, those four strikes strike as one, so if an attack is blocked, all four blades are blocked. so what you have here is 3 × 4*4D6 Killing Attacks. It's still Wicked Nasty, but not quite as nightmarish as (and much easier to block than) 12*4D6 KAs.

 

On the other hand, a block wouldn't stop the sweep sequence, so even if the first attack was blocked, the second & third attacks can still try to make it through.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

For one thing' date=' I don't think that stretching allows for the 'unblockable' aspect of indirect (Stretching is treated as [i']partially[/i] Indirect, as I recall).

 

Also, with a MPA, those four strikes strike as one, so if an attack is blocked, all four blades are blocked. so what you have here is 3 × 4*4D6 Killing Attacks. It's still Wicked Nasty, but not quite as nightmarish as (and much easier to block than) 12*4D6 KAs.

 

On the other hand, a block wouldn't stop the sweep sequence, so even if the first attack was blocked, the second & third attacks can still try to make it through.

 

Except for the lack of stretching/indirect isn't this essentially the way to model General Grievous and his 4 spinning light-sabers technique?

[Cardinal]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

Thanks for the comments and clarification. I might not have expressed it clearly, but I actually knew the distinctions for Rapid Attack and TWF, I was just cribbing short hand for using the RA for a non-disadvantaged Sweep. However, I did not know about that change to the DCV rule for TWF. Very interesting.

 

I am glad to see that I read it right and that it is as nasty as I thought it was.

 

One comment for PsyInt, I think the - to ocv applies to all attacks, not just the last set. Either way, that is killer.

 

In either case, in TL's case, if she is willing to crank out the END and use her hyperaccelerated normal attacks, you could be looking at 4-6 14DC strikes with good OCV (at the cost of leaving herself open to counter attacks).

 

It might be that she not quite as over matched by Morrgaine as I had thought.

[Zed-F]

Re: MPA v. Sweep v. Combo of Two

 

I seem to recall mentioning that combining a sweep and an MPA in the same manuever is unlikely to fly. Sweep and MPA are already GM-permission maneuvers, I really doubt most GMs will allow a swept MPA.