Complex power build advice needed

[Outsider]

I am trying to build a power that allows the user to duplicate objects.

 

The power is (not surprisingly) Duplication, UAA.

 

The tricky part is that the power allows the duplication of larger mass objects, but doing so takes extra time AND it allows the duplication of more complex (higher points) objects, but doing that requies an activation roll.

 

If it were just one axis, it wouldnt be too hard :

 

 

If the Duplication only got harder (requires AR) with increased complexity, I'd just apply partial limitations to the power :

 

10 (10) Duplication UAA (+1) : up to a 25 pt object

_7 (10) Duplication UAA (+1) : up to a 50 pt object, AR (-1/2)

_5 (10) Duplication UAA (+1) : up to a 75 pt object AR (-1)

 

 

Or, if the Duplication only took more time (Extra Time) with increased mass, I'd just take the portion of the overall cost that comes from the increased mass advantage and apply the limitations only to those points :

 

30 (30) Duplication : up to a 100 Kg, 75 point object

10 (15) Naked Adv : Inc Mass to 400 Kg (+1/2), Extra Time (-1/2)

_7 (15) Naked Adv : Inc Mass to 1600 Kg (+1/2), Extra Time (-1)

 

 

But since it does both, what I am thinking is this...

 

Make a 2 axis table that lists the disads, one down each axis. At each intersection, write in the AP of the power when limited by the disads in its column and row. In the example above, the maximum AP that can be used completely without limitaion is 10... a 25 point, 100 kg duplicate. Each bit of AP after that will be limited by one or both of the limitations. So, what I do is take each block of AP after the unlimited portion and apply the lesser of the two limitations that it will be required to operate under. I dont apply the greater because that would be applying a greater limitation that is sometimes used. For example : using the power at a 20 point level means either that the character is taking -1 in Extra time, OR -1/2 in Activation Roll, so the lesser of the two limitations is applied.

 

________-0 AR___-1/2 AR__-1 AR

-0 ET_____10_____20______30

-1/2 ET___15_____30______45

-1 ET_____20_____40______60

 

 

The first 10 points get no limitation

The next 10 points gets a -1/2 Limitation, as they are used either with a -1/2 time limitation or a -1/2 AR limitation, OR with a -1 time limitation.

The next 10 points get a -1 Limitation, since using 30 points of the power will mean either taking a -1 AR -OR- a -1/2 AR AND a -1/2 time lim.

The next 15 points get a -1 1/2 limitation, as they use either a -1/2 time AND a -1 AR lim, OR a -1 time AND a -1/2 AR lim.

The last 15 points get a -2 limitation as they are only used with a -1 AR AND -1 Time lim.

 

So :

 

10 (10) The first 10 points

_7 (10) The next 10 points (-1/2)

_5 (10) The next 10 points (-1)

_6 (15) The next 15 points (-1 1/2)

_5 (15) The last 15 points (-2)

 

Total Cost : 33 points.

 

 

The actual power is going to have a couple other overall lims, and possibly some variable (Extra Time/Activation Roll/Extra END) limitations in addition to the fixed Time and AR lims, so it will be even more complex... but that's just playing with the numbers if this approach for a multi-axis limitation structure looks valid. Does it to you guys? Do you have any other ideas on how to model these limitations?

[JmOz]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

Can I suggest that you scrap the Dulpication UAA, overly complex and unnesesary IMO.

 

take a good look at Transform, probably would fit better, with rules already in place for big jobs taking longer and for added complexity based on Active Points (Look at adding powers section)

[Psylint]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

I"m with JmOz,

 

You could do this as Transform air into replica of adjacent object. A major transform, that's partially limited.

 

xd6 Transform, +

xd6 Transform extra time, +

xd6 Transform activation roll +

xd6 Transform Increased endurance cost

 

etc.

 

Peace

[Jaxom]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

You're approaching this using the same "math-head" approach that I tend to use. It may not be entirely appropriate here, but it is appealing because it is simply explained (even if not simply solved) and can be justified. As the other two have suggested, there is also the complete opposite which is to go with Transform as an abstract and simple build, even if you added the partial limitations that Psylint suggests.

 

Rather than go with the array as you have suggested, I am going to suggest that you (or you and the GM if that is not you) sit down and discuss how you see this power being used and define an appropriate custom limitation. I don't know what will be most common, but I can envision situations where you might want to duplicate a low-point-value, high mass object like a stack of bullion or a set of barbells. In that situation it seems you would expect to spend extra time, but not make the AR. It seems, then, that you are taking too much limitation for the points there.

 

This will likely make the power more expensive (which should be the case if the situation I described above is at all common) and will mean that you might have to re-evaluate the limitation if you put more experience into the power during game-play.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

Well, two things.

 

1) Transform is easier and "duplicating" things can be an SFX of the Transform, since it is legal to use it to create something out of nothing; you're just rolling dice & burning END until you achieve the appropriate BODY of the thing you want to duplicate. One of those rare cases where using Transform doesn't feel all cheap and yucky.

 

2) If you want to Duplicate/UAA, you're overcomplicating it; make it a Compound/Multi-Power; one slot to handle these objects, one slot to handle bigger objects with more Side Effects, and so on.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

The rules discourage duplication UAA, but if I was GMing I'd want to know a bit more about what this was going to be used for. I might allow it.

 

More difficult is the array of limitations.

 

Technically the only way to have different limitations that apply on an either/or basis is with Variable Limitaiton, but that does not seem to fit the bill here. Extra time to change limitations and all.

 

If the character controls whether he takes extra time or an activation roll it certainly is not worth full value.

 

The array is an interesting way to work out the point breaks, but I'd require more definition as to WHICH limitation applies at each level, or, if the character retained choice on a case by case basis, I'd require something like the Variable Limitation power modifier.

 

People have suggested transform as a viable alternative, and it is, but instead you might want to consider 'summon'. It does not require UAA, and there is clear precedent for using it to create objects.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

Duplication, UAA, Maximum Mass you want to Duplicate; Side Effect: X Mass takes X Extra Time, Y Mass takes Y Extra Time, Z Mass takes Z Extra Time

 

complication gone.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

Check out the optional Object Creation rules Steve published in Digital HERO. I don't recall the issue #, but Im sure someone will chime in with it.

[JmOz]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

Check out the optional Object Creation rules Steve published in Digital HERO. I don't recall the issue #' date=' but Im sure someone will chime in with it.[/quote']

 

You know, a giant index of Digital Hero might be a good idea, at least a giant table of contents...

 

I might have to do that when I get some free time...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

Its Issue #7.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Complex power build advice needed

 

In my Reliance Reforged game there was a character called Smith who could call up copies of objects he touched in the same state he touched them. We bought it as a variable power pool. For vehicles we assumed they were summoned using the summoning rules. Just some ideas...