A cheaper flashlight

[Malleus]

I was fooling around with enhanced senses, and adapted the following from Nightvision p163.

 

Lightvision

The character can see in total darkness by emitting light. (Not in "Darkness" etc...)

Cost:

5 Character points (+4 Enhanced perception, with a 1/2 Limitation, Only to counteract Darkness Modifiers; active)

 

Would this be like a flashlight, where the illumination is visible to anyone with normal vision -or- would it just mean that the characters eyes glow?

[SteveZilla]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Neither. Not costing END, it would have no perceivable special effect. To make it have one, you can apply Visible(-¼) to it. However, Visible would make it have F/X in three Sense Groups.

 

But even if it were visible (a beam of light), the power would *not* conteract the darkness penalties for anybody else but you. This is where a Flashlight built with Sight Group Images is superior. It actually lights up the target hex so that everybody around can see it clearly.

[ghost-angel]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

I'd rule your eyes glow, and that's it. It only benefits you, not anyone else.

 

The Active aspect means some form of emission is made by the character that gets a return; that emission would be perceivable in some fashion.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

You could buy images if you want light

[rmccarty4]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Would you build a flashlight using Sight Images or Change Environment?

Let's presume there's simply no illumination available in an interior space, not an actual Darkness power active.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

You could just buy a flashlight

[Malleus]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Would you build a flashlight using Sight Images or Change Environment?

Let's presume there's simply no illumination available in an interior space, not an actual Darkness power active.

 

I wouldn't use Change Environment since CE does negitive modifiers only. It could do "obscuring light" but not "illuminating light"

 

Sight Images is the official way to do things but the examples don't make much sense to me.

 

Personaly, I liked the idea that someone with passive senses could see by the emissions of someone elses active senses, but it seems that it is an unusual preference.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

I wouldn't use Change Environment since CE does negitive modifiers only. It could do "obscuring light" but not "illuminating light"

 

Sight Images is the official way to do things but the examples don't make much sense to me.

 

Personaly, I liked the idea that someone with passive senses could see by the emissions of someone elses active senses, but it seems that it is an unusual preference.

 

Personally I can't see too much of a problem with your approach: I'd give a character a flashlight for free, in most games, and unless they wanted a pocket portable searchlight, I wouldn't bother building it at all, so a glowing character who can see from his own sfx, with the trade off that he is pretty obvious and otheres can use the effect too does nto sound unbalanced.

 

May not have the official seal of approval, but sounds like a very good house fix. Nice idea

[SteveZilla]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

You could just buy a flashlight

 

But then you'll spend a fortune on all the batteries.

[ghost-angel]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

I wouldn't use Change Environment since CE does negitive modifiers only. It could do "obscuring light" but not "illuminating light"

 

Sight Images is the official way to do things but the examples don't make much sense to me.

 

Change Environment only does negative COMBAT effects. It can cause "positive" environmental changes, such as growing flowers, creating holy ground, etc. . .

 

It's standard to use Images to create light because Images creates something you can see with Normal Sight, such as illuminating an area.

[Malleus]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

So if I was ever gonna do a cat hero, I'd swap Normal sight (passive) to Normal sight (active) to create a hero that can see in normal darkness but can be easily seen in the dark by his glowing eyes.

 

But for a flashlight I like this...

1 point real cost. Enhanced senses Transmit (sight 2 active cost); OAF -1

 

Now for my question: if it's not a flashlight, what is it?

[ghost-angel]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

But for a flashlight I like this...

1 point real cost. Enhanced senses Transmit (sight 2 active cost); OAF -1

 

Now for my question: if it's not a flashlight, what is it?

 

Transmission of Sensory Data - if it's dark there's no Sensory Data i.e. static.

 

Eyes don't create light, the use ambient light.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

But for a flashlight I like this...

1 point real cost. Enhanced senses Transmit (sight 2 active cost); OAF -1

 

Now for my question: if it's not a flashlight, what is it?

 

If you really want to know, it turns your eyes into a device that can transmit information at the speed of spoken word to another device using the same medium (in this case visible light).

 

"I looked deeply into her eyes, and somehow I just knew.... I was standing on her foot."

[TaxiMan]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

If Char. A has Active Sonar and Char. B has Passive Sonar, both were in an anechoic chamber (deadens sound) designed to neutralize Passive Sonar and Hearing -

 

I'd say the Passive Sonar guy can get information from the energy produced by Active Sonar guy. Of course, Active Sonar guy can see just fine in the "dark", but he'd have trouble seeing the walls. Stuff in the room would reflect sound like normal.

 

So a new guy with Active Sight shows up, how does he see? He emits light. He sees the reflections produced. Surrounded by people with Passive Sight, he's a boon in the darkness.

 

Universal Handheld focus; Fuel Charge; sounds like a flashlight to me.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

If Char. A has Active Sonar and Char. B has Passive Sonar, both were in an anechoic chamber (deadens sound) designed to neutralize Passive Sonar and Hearing -

 

I'd say the Passive Sonar guy can get information from the energy produced by Active Sonar guy. Of course, Active Sonar guy can see just fine in the "dark", but he'd have trouble seeing the walls. Stuff in the room would reflect sound like normal.

 

So a new guy with Active Sight shows up, how does he see? He emits light. He sees the reflections produced. Surrounded by people with Passive Sight, he's a boon in the darkness.

 

Universal Handheld focus; Fuel Charge; sounds like a flashlight to me.

 

You are going and being all logical, and you know how that upsets people

[ghost-angel]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Active Sight is different from Transmit Sight.

 

If you built the OPs build using Detect like Sonar is built I might allow it, but building it as Enhanced Perception only to counteract Darkness? Not a chance.

[SteveZilla]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Active Sight is different from Transmit Sight.

 

If you built the OPs build using Detect like Sonar is built I might allow it, but building it as Enhanced Perception only to counteract Darkness? Not a chance.

 

I agree for two reasons. One: there is already a power that does that, and there are guidelines/rules about using one power to do what another already does. Two: Enhanced Perception is not a Sense. It is an *ehancement* to a Sense. Only an actual Sense (Detect) can be Active, despite how they have all the "senses" in the book categorized. It's not active, so that pretty much leaves only "passive", as it doesn't emit anything.

[Malleus]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Hero System 5th Edition, Revised (p. 163) specifically allows the limitation "Only To Counteract Darkness Modifiers" on the sense "Enhanced Perception."

Nightvision

The character can see in total darkness (not including the Power

Darkness

, but including some forms of Change Environment that obscure vision) as though it were normal daylight.

Cost: 5 Character points (+4 Enhanced Perception, with a -1/2 Limitation,

Only To Counteract Darkness Modifiers

; Passive.)

 

And specifies that Enhanced Senses can be active or passive. Sidebar (p. 163).

The

HERO System

groups Detects and other Enhanced Senses into two categories:

Active

and

Passive

. Each type has benefits and drawbacks, so neither receives an Advantage or Limitation.

Lastly, I don't know if Enhanced Perception should have been something besides an Enhanced Sense like Active Sonar, but that's how it's listed.

OTHER SENSES...

Active Sonar... Enhanced Perception... High Range Radio Perception....

[ghost-angel]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

The biggest factor is Enhanced Senses Power is a Self Only Power, unlike Images which is an Area Of Effect Power.

 

The Self Only aspect alone tells me that active or passive, only the person paying for it gains benefit.

 

If I'm feeling generous an Active Sense may give someone a +1 PER Bonus if they only have a Passive version of the same Sense with the same SFX.

[Malleus]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

I could get behind that. After all, the description of active says that it's only "pulses."

 

I still don't get what transmit (sight) is for. Anything it can do, Images can do more legaly and more officialy.. Transmit (sight) is the power that time forgot! :dinosaur:

[SteveZilla]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Now to throw a (potential) monkey wrench into the works....

 

A TV Camera: It clearly perceives in the Sight Group, yet transmits what it perceives in the Radio Group... Does HRRP include the "camera" by default? Shouldn't it be flashable (in some regard to part of it's operation) by both Sight and Radio Group flashes?

[ghost-angel]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

I could get behind that. After all, the description of active says that it's only "pulses."

 

I still don't get what transmit (sight) is for. Anything it can do, Images can do more legaly and more officialy.. Transmit (sight) is the power that time forgot! :dinosaur:

 

Movie Projectors could be built as Transmit Sight.

 

Unencrypted CyberCam Eye: Transmit for Normal Sight; Affected as Radio and Sight Groups.

 

For the Street Journalist with a limited budget this CyberCam allows them to transmit from the scene as they see it right back to studio! No need for heavy equipment to cart around, no worries about running out of film, the signal is beamed right to the studios mainframe; Truly What You See Is What You Get Journalism.

 

Now to throw a (potential) monkey wrench into the works....

 

A TV Camera: It clearly perceives in the Sight Group, yet transmits what it perceives in the Radio Group... Does HRRP include the "camera" by default? Shouldn't it be flashable (in some regard to part of it's operation) by both Sight and Radio Group flashes?

 

Yes, in fact cameras and other sensory equipment (radars) are almost always built HRRP; Affected as Radio and Sight Groups because if you can't see, you can't see Television.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

Cheaper Flashlight

Images to Sight Group, +2 to PER, (16 Active Points), OAF Fragile (-1 1/2), Only to Create Light (-1), No Range (-1/2), 1 Fuel Charge up to 1 Hour (+0). Total cost 4 Real Points.

 

Real Cheap Flashlight

Images to Sight Group, +1 to PER, (13 Active Points), OAF Fragile (-1 1/2), Only to Create Light (-1), Extremely small area of illumination (-1), No Range (-1/2), 1 Fuel Charge up to a 5 Minutes (-1/2), Total cost 2 Real Points.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

A sense that is active sends out pulses, or beams or something that the sense can perceive, so active sonar sends out sound.

 

If you build an active normal sight power, I'm pretty sure it has to send out something, and the obvious contender is light.

 

Transmit is something different again - the fact that you can transmit what you perceive does not necessarily mean that you transmit in the same medium you sense in.

 

Finally, any power can be made visible, and as part of the sfx you could, for instance, emit light.

 

If you have flight defined as sitting on a column of fire, you would be visible, and the fire you generate would act as a light source.

 

Even if the power was 'armour' you could make it visible and derive some mix of benefit and penalty from that. there is not reason the same logic cannot be applied to a sense.

 

The bottom line though, is that Hero tells us we make light with images.

 

Aside: personally I was always desperately confused as to the 'see in total darkness +4 PER' thing. I mean, in total darkness, normal eyesight does not work at all - it is not simply working at a penalty, otherwise any of us could see in total darkness if we had a decent INT or made some lucky rolls. We can't.

 

In my book (admittedly in crayon), seeing in total dark is an additional detect that uses the simulated sense rule, (sight), probably a 10 point detect, so your eyes work normally, but you can see in the dark. If you can only sense basic outlines in B+W (you know, infravision) then it might be a 5 point detect.

 

Flash normal sight and you can still see in the dark, flash your sight group and you can't.

 

Mind you, in my book, normal sight is: Sight simulated sense group, detect light, discriminatory. Apparently that's wrong.

[SteveZilla]

Re: A cheaper flashlight

 

A sense that is active sends out pulses, or beams or something that the sense can perceive, so active sonar sends out sound.

 

If you build an active normal sight power, I'm pretty sure it has to send out something, and the obvious contender is light.

 

Transmit is something different again - the fact that you can transmit what you perceive does not necessarily mean that you transmit in the same medium you sense in.

 

Correct. An Active sense can be detected by others, but in and of itself does not serve to transmit information -- that takes Transmit.

 

The bottom line though, is that Hero tells us we make light with images.

 

Aside: personally I was always desperately confused as to the 'see in total darkness +4 PER' thing. I mean, in total darkness, normal eyesight does not work at all - it is not simply working at a penalty, otherwise any of us could see in total darkness if we had a decent INT or made some lucky rolls. We can't.

 

I think that "Natural Darkness" -- the kind that only imposes a -4 PER penalty is like what you might encounter outside at night (with no artifical lighting nearby). Yeah, it's Dark, but it's not Inky Pitch Black. That's for where there is *absolutely* no shred of light getting in. Like in a deep cave, or a sealed bank vault, etc.

 

Mind you' date=' in my book, normal sight is: Sight simulated sense group, detect light, discriminatory. Apparently that's wrong.[/quote']

 

You forgot: Sense, and Targeting Group.