Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

[Arc Esu]

I have two characters in my Teen Champions game that have power builds with Constant (or Continuous) Area of Effects that have Usable as Attack so they can "stick" them to a target and have that target followed by the AoE. So far, no problem.

 

However, I intially ruled that in order to make the effect stick to the target, you had to hit the target's normal DCV, not DCV 3 for targeting a hex. I recalled reading this somewhere, and it seemed balanced to me, because otherwise characters that rely on high DCV for defense could be too easily hosed by a Constant AoE UAA effect. However, while doing a rules review, I couldn't find that rule anywhere.

 

So my questions to the community are: 1.) Is my ruling correct? 2.) If not, what is the correct ruling? and 3.) Does this make Constant AoE UAA powers unbalanced?

[jtelson]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

I think that a constant AOE targets a hex and doesn't move, rather than accompanies a moving target.

If you want it to accompany a target, you're ruling would be the minimum I would require.

In my experience most powers that have AOE, Constant and UAA advantages layered on them are going to be unbalanced.

[Sundansyr]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

Area-Affecting Constant Powers (5th ED Rev, Page 99/100)

 

If a Constant Power affects an area (either inherently or because the character purchases the Area Of Eff ect or Explosion Advantages for it), the Power remains in effect in the Segments between the attacker’s Phases. Any target who enters the area takes damage or is affected in the Segment he enters and every time the attacker’s Phase occurs while the target remains within the area. If a character enters a Constant area-affecting power’s field of effect more than once per Phase, he does not suffer the damage (or other effect) multiple times. However, he does continue to suffer from any ongoing circumstance the power creates (such as the penalties caused by a Change Environment, or the “blindness” created by Darkness to the Sight Group).

Once established, an area-affecting Constant Power cannot be moved unless the power has the Mobile Advantage (page 250) or the GM allows it to move for no additional cost. At the GM’s option, an area-affecting Constant Power with No Range (i.e., which centers on the character who creates it) may move with the character as he moves for no additional cost (this is particularly appropriate for Change Environment, Darkness, and Images). (To create an area-Affecting Constant Power that “sticks to” another character and moves as he moves, use the Usable As Attack Advantage.)

 

Though I would look at multi-phase duration powers in two ways:

 

Constant - Independant of the character (i.e. a Molotov Coctail). Once thrown, either at the target hex or the target itself, continues to burn until it's built-in endurance pool is exhausted (I would not allow an attack power to be 0-END continuous). It is completely independant of the attacker and if it's AoE it can be used against the attacker if they did not buy personal immunity!! The attacker pays no END and does not need to maintain any sense of the target whatsoever. It's damage is applied on each of the attacker's action phases, even if they are no longer present, conscious, et al.

 

Continuous - Not independant of the character (i.e. a Flame Thrower). Once discharged it continues to dish out damage on each of the attacker's action phases so long as A: the character pays END and B: the character maintains a targeting sense on the target. Within the limits of the attack itself (flame throwers don't go through glass or intervening obstacles very well, even if the attacker can still sense the target with whatever targeting sense they wish to use). If the attacker wants intervening obstacles not to impede their attack it will have to be purchased with the appropriate advantages (indirect, mental attack, et al) unless it's special effects can ignore certain types of barriers (lasers going through glass, as an example). They must still pay endurance each phase the attack deals damage.

[Tonio]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

5ER, pg 275, 2nd column, under "Using the Attack; Defenses":

 

"Usable As Attack requires an Attack Roll

against the target"

 

"The target" is the target character in the case you describe, not the target Hex (although it COULD be the target Hex, if the owner of the power wants to, in which case he'd roll against the DCV of the Hex).

[jtelson]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

5ER, pg 275, 2nd column, under "Using the Attack; Defenses":

 

"Usable As Attack requires an Attack Roll

against the target"

 

"The target" is the target character in the case you describe, not the target Hex (although it COULD be the target Hex, if the owner of the power wants to, in which case he'd roll against the DCV of the Hex).

 

I don't have the book in front of me but generally AoE changes how target is defined (From a person to an area).

 

Although I vauguely recall something in UAA about dropping an AOE on a person.

[Tonio]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

As far as I know, AoE doesn't change what you can target, but rather how much is affected. You can target a Hex with a non-AoE attack, and you can target a character with an AoE attack.

[jtelson]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

As far as I know' date=' AoE doesn't change what you can target, but rather how much is affected. You can target a Hex with a non-AoE attack, and you can target a character with an AoE attack.[/quote']

 

OK Home

 

Normally AoE does change what you can target (Area centered on a hex DCV 3) but with UAA (I'm really beginning to hate this advantage) you can target it on a character and it will travel with him. Assuming I read all of the relevant passages correctly.

 

Long Story Short Arc Esu is doing it right.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

I have two characters in my Teen Champions game that have power builds with Constant (or Continuous) Area of Effects that have Usable as Attack so they can "stick" them to a target and have that target followed by the AoE. So far' date=' no problem.[/size']

 

However, I intially ruled that in order to make the effect stick to the target, you had to hit the target's normal DCV, not DCV 3 for targeting a hex. I recalled reading this somewhere, and it seemed balanced to me, because otherwise characters that rely on high DCV for defense could be too easily hosed by a Constant AoE UAA effect. However, while doing a rules review, I couldn't find that rule anywhere.

 

So my questions to the community are: 1.) Is my ruling correct? 2.) If not, what is the correct ruling? and 3.) Does this make Constant AoE UAA powers unbalanced?

 

Another option available is to apply AOE twice. One for targeting the UAA component and one that determines the size of the effect.

 

example:

 

75 Make Him Glow, Make Him Glow, Make Him Glow...: Sight Group Images Increased Size (4" radius; +1/2), +/-5 to PER Rolls, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (75 Active Points) - END=7

 

70 Make Him Strobe!: Sight Group Flash 4d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1) (70 Active Points) - END=7

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

You can think of it as being two different powers:

a) the power that you want to force on the target.

the power to do that to the target.

 

Buying AOE on (a) does not give you AOE on ( - you still have to hit the target's DCV. Once you do so, the power that then emanates from the target will be AOE.

 

To be able to hit your target just by hitting his hex, you buy AOE twice, once for (a) and once for ( - though ( could just be One Hex Accurate, or could even be a full-AOE so you can effect multiple people, though that raises some other potential problems.

 

Or you can just buy AOE on ( to make it easy to hit the target, but then the power that emanates won't be AOE.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Constant duration AoE, UAA issue

 

Personally I've always allowed targetting of AoEs on things other than hexes - character's for instance - but to do that you obviously target the character's DCV, bit the hex DCV (3). Unless you use Hyper Man's suggestion, in which case, potentially everything in the AoE has an AoE attached to it, which stays with it even if it moves. That sounds too confusing for me