Duplicating character's attack

[Tech]

I've only once attempted to created a character with the power Duplication - when the power first came into existence so many moons ago. Now, I'm going to try again but I have a question for those of you who've successfully created and used duplication characters: how do you balance out the attack power?

 

Assuming someone has the power to create 2 duplicates of themselves, suddenly the GM has 3 attackers on his villain, not 1 (not to mention 2 additional characters).

 

I'm going for 2 duplicates (resulting in 3 characters). Assume a 10d6 EB, 6 SPD, 20-25 defenses average for characters, what suggested attack powers and power levels might you give this character?

[pinecone]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

I've only once attempted to created a character with the power Duplication - when the power first came into existence so many moons ago. Now, I'm going to try again but I have a question for those of you who've successfully created and used duplication characters: how do you balance out the attack power?

 

Assuming someone has the power to create 2 duplicates of themselves, suddenly the GM has 3 attackers on his villain, not 1 (not to mention 2 additional characters).

 

I'm going for 2 duplicates (resulting in 3 characters). Assume a 10d6 EB, 6 SPD, 20-25 defenses average for characters, what suggested attack powers and power levels might you give this character?

 

I've gone with the "Alittle weaker" route and been happy so in a 10DC world a dup master might throw 8 or so...maybe 6D6 AP........

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

It really depends upon the concept and how it bears out. I haven't seen very many duplicators that had very high attacks in the first place. Most every one I've seen has had the fact the the attacks are doubled factored in to the concept. After all, Duplication itself is going to cost a hefty chunk of change so there are fewer points left over to spread among offense, defense, movement, etc.

 

If there is concern about the dupe trying to overdo it, then you may want to use a form of offense value formula. Typically this will be DC of attack X SPD value =< Some universal value. Using duplication instead of (or in addition to) SPD in the above value might help.

[Tech]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

It seems that Duplication is a very little used power. Has anyone out there used it well as a power in a player character?

[pinecone]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

I personally don't use it...but I saw a char named "Army of one" that was way cool....he tossed 10dc in a 12DC world and did very well, I seem to remember 4 dups that had Teamwork.....

[GoldenAge]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

I give the character a weaker attack but allow for coordinated attacks. In truth, a simple gun in the hands of 10+ duplicates thinking and attacking as a single unit can be quite horrifying.

 

Can you say "Called Shot Head" with a Multiple Attacker bonus of -8 to the defender's DCV? I thought you could.

 

Myriad Man is a considerably feared reoccurring bad guy in Epic City.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

I dont have a problem with the power per se when it is used appropriately. Im just not fond of the extra bookkeeping.

 

 

As far as how to balance, it depends on what you are trying to balance. If its combat effectiveness, a combination of overhead from dupe itself and coming in a bit below averages helps a lot.

 

Another way is to bake into power designs a requirement for two or more dupes to be working together to use their abilities which minimizes the doubled SPD effect.

 

Another way is to force the player to take no more time than other players that only have one PC when taking their actions. This leaves them less time to figure out the most efficient possible usage of their dupes. You could even put them on a stop watch.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

This is a great question and there were actually a few great debates on the subject awhile ago. I'll spare you the lengthy details and propose two solutions we have used that work. My current character is a Duplicator. In our campaign, we use a strict AP cap for powers, which includes Duplication. For example, in our 450 pt. game, we can only have at upto 75 APs in a power, including Duplication, which limits how powerful my Duplicaties can be in strength and number.

 

1. For each Duplicate, lower the APs in the character's attacks by 5 (i.e. 1 DC for normal attacks). Mathmatically this will reduce damage by a significant amount. For example, if the average attack in the campaign is 12d6, and defenses top off at 30, the average damage done by an attack will be roughly 12 pts. (~42-~30=~12). Lowering the attack by 1d6 will roughly reduce the damage that gets through defenses by ~3.5, or about 29%. Two Duplicates would be limited to 10d6 attacks, lowering the average damage per attack by about 7 or 58%. Obviosuly defenses will vary so this is just a rough guideline. Also keep in mind that though the character can do more damage if all the Duplicates hit, the character still needs to make multiple attack rolls to do so. Limiting the OCVs of Duplicates is another way to control their damage.

 

2. Another possibility is to use the above system, but lower attacks by 5 APs for each doubling of the number of Duplicates. For example: -5 at one Duplicate, -10 at two, -15 at four, ect. This system will allow for a greater number of Duplicates before average attacks have difficulty getting through defenses. Use caution with this suggestion though, because a large number of Duplicates, even if they do little damage, can wreak havoc on many situations due to Coordinated Attacks and Multiple Attacker bonuses.

I'm going for 2 duplicates (resulting in 3 characters). Assume a 10d6 EB' date=' 6 SPD, 20-25 defenses average for characters, what suggested attack powers and power levels might you give this character?[/quote']

For this character I would limit the Duplicates to 8d6 attacks. The average attack in the campaign would do 10-15 pts. of damage past defenses (~35 - 20 to 25). The average attack for each duplicate will do 3-8 pts. of damage past defenses (~28 - 20 to 25). Their combined damage will be respectable but not game breaking.

[Tech]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

Thanks Doc, it's what the doctor ordered. I was guessing something like what you suggested but being as I've yet to use this power successfully, I was wondering what others would suggest.

 

I guess it really is the bookwork that keeps it from being used too often. Villains on the other hand, can be created simple and the GM doesn't have to worry about roleplaying out of combat - generally. Plus, a villain having the power amounts to more villains the GM can throw at the heroes with a possible surprise if the heroes don't know a particular villain has it.

[pinecone]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

This is a great question and there were actually a few great debates on the subject awhile ago. I'll spare you the lengthy details and propose two solutions we have used that work. My current character is a Duplicator. In our campaign, we use a strict AP cap for powers, which includes Duplication. For example, in our 450 pt. game, we can only have at upto 75 APs in a power, including Duplication, which limits how powerful my Duplicaties can be in strength and number.

 

1. For each Duplicate, lower the APs in the character's attacks by 5 (i.e. 1 DC for normal attacks). Mathmatically this will reduce damage by a significant amount. For example, if the average attack in the campaign is 12d6, and defenses top off at 30, the average damage done by an attack will be roughly 12 pts. (~42-~30=~12). Lowering the attack by 1d6 will roughly reduce the damage that gets through defenses by ~3.5, or about 29%. Two Duplicates would be limited to 10d6 attacks, lowering the average damage per attack by about 7 or 58%. Obviosuly defenses will vary so this is just a rough guideline. Also keep in mind that though the character can do more damage if all the Duplicates hit, the character still needs to make multiple attack rolls to do so. Limiting the OCVs of Duplicates is another way to control their damage.

 

2. Another possibility is to use the above system, but lower attacks by 5 APs for each doubling of the number of Duplicates. For example: -5 at one Duplicate, -10 at two, -15 at four, ect. This system will allow for a greater number of Duplicates before average attacks have difficulty getting through defenses. Use caution with this suggestion though, because a large number of Duplicates, even if they do little damage, can wreak havoc on many situations due to Coordinated Attacks and Multiple Attacker bonuses.

 

For this character I would limit the Duplicates to 8d6 attacks. The average attack in the campaign would do 10-15 pts. of damage past defenses (~35 - 20 to 25). The average attack for each duplicate will do 3-8 pts. of damage past defenses (~28 - 20 to 25). Their combined damage will be respectable but not game breaking.

 

well put...though you also have to watch for power mods...PEN in particular can make a weak dup's attack horrific....AP less so, but Yikes is right around the corner...

[Doc Samson]

Re: Duplicating character's attack

 

well put...though you also have to watch for power mods...PEN in particular can make a weak dup's attack horrific....AP less so' date=' but Yikes is right around the corner...[/quote']

This is sage advice. Any Advantage (or power like Find Weakness) that reduces the effect of Defenses, also including NND, AVLD, and BOECV, can have a dramatic on the proposed system above.