nexus Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 The reviews I've read for it have been pretty glowing over all and largely, I agree with them but there are some minor things that don't click for me about the setting. Mainly, I think it's due to Mr. Bennie and I have slightly different GMing styles Has anyone else had any particular issues with Gestalt (they need not be deal breakers, quibbles are fine) that wouldn't mind sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Well, first off, I loved Gestalt. That said, the setting did lack some of my favorite conventions. Most notably, hidden ancient civilizations and lands (though you could find dream-versions of those in the Gestalt dimension), and the idea of a secret history of Supers going back into antiquity (though, again, the option of rare sport Gestalts is there). Finally, I prefer to have my public Supers start appearing around the Victorian period, rather than in the 1980s. Gestalt is flexible enough to tweak to work those back in for those who care, and I can see why they were left out, but still, I'd rather have them in. Mechanically I wouldn't build things in quite the same way as Bennie, but that's always the case for me. As this is a thread for things that didn't quite work rather than praise, I'll leave it at that. Overall, Gestalt is (imo) one of the best things out there for Superheros right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Well, first off, I loved Gestalt. I like it a great deal as well, I'd like to make that very clear. It's one of the very few "single source" settings that has really held my interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? I created this thread due to a discussion I had with a potential player in my upcoming Gestalt campaign that grew pretty heated (IMO, on his end) when I told him about some changes I intended to make in the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? I created this thread due to a discussion I had with a potential player in my upcoming Gestalt campaign that grew pretty heated (IMO' date=' on his end) when I told him about some changes I intended to make in the setting.[/quote'] If he objects to the changes, let him GM. Seriously, we all make changes to published material. Doing some of the world building yourself is one of the things that makes it your campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? I created this thread due to a discussion I had with a potential player in my upcoming Gestalt campaign that grew pretty heated (IMO' date=' on his end) when I told him about some changes I intended to make in the setting.[/quote'] What changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? If he objects to the changes, let him GM. Seriously, we all make changes to published material. Doing some of the world building yourself is one of the things that makes it your campaign. Oh yeah but it did make me wonder what others might seen as downsides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? What changes? Mainly thinning the ranks of NPCs and toning some of them down. There were a few two many "Best X" and "most powerful Y" among the NPCs for my tastes. I didn't care for Dr Power and Titan particularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Oh yeah but it did make me wonder what others might seen as downsides. Sure. For me, the only downside was the lack of an explicit history of weirdness. I don't like the whole "Everything was pretty normal, then it was a comic book" approach. Of course, some people will completely disagree. For my tastes, I like either a Superhero world that has had a long, long time to get used to the idea, or a world where significant strangeness has been going on in the background. Or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Mainly thinning the ranks of NPCs and toning some of them down. There were a few two many "Best X" and "most powerful Y" among the NPCs for my tastes. I didn't care for Dr Power and Titan particularly. Picking and choosing the world's NPCs is a core GM job; not much grounds to object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Mainly thinning the ranks of NPCs and toning some of them down. There were a few two many "Best X" and "most powerful Y" among the NPCs for my tastes. I didn't care for Dr Power and Titan particularly. [Whiny Snarky Voice] But... but... How are the players supposed to build their characters if they don't know the secret weaknesses of the villains? They might just as well not have gone to the expense of buying the supplement! [/WSV] Seriously, I always reworked all the details of any supplement I used. Everyone I GMed for knew where to get this stuff, too and one or more were munchkins, even though I hadn't heard the term yet. A player who wants a supplement served as written has suspect motives, IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamo Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? There's always one player in every group running a published setting that just can't stand it when some element of said setting is altered by the GM. I used to avoid published settings for this very reason, but my A-hole identity has strengthened over the years so now I'll run and alter a published setting just make them cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? I was thinking about Gestalt's Fantasyscapes just earlier today, actually. The idea is right on the borderline of being cool and touching a pet peeve of mine when it comes to single source settings. That is, while it's possible to play a character that thinks his powers come from a different source it's never been something I've wanted to play. The main reason being in most single source settings the source is at least partially understood in-game so you're character would be consider deluded to some degree. Fantasyscapes are somewhat different though. They're "real" in the sense they exist, you can travel there, interact, even be killed, IIUC even if they aren't "really" what they represent but something more than just delusions or completely fabricated in setting. It's a fine line and I don't know if I would like playing a character from one or that thought it was "real" but it seems more acceptable (to me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? I was thinking about Gestalt's Fantasyscapes just earlier today, actually. The idea is right on the borderline of being cool and touching a pet peeve of mine when it comes to single source settings. That is, while it's possible to play a character that thinks his powers come from a different source it's never been something I've wanted to play. The main reason being in most single source settings the source is at least partially understood in-game so you're character would be consider deluded to some degree. Fantasyscapes are somewhat different though. They're "real" in the sense they exist, you can travel there, interact, even be killed, IIUC even if they aren't "really" what they represent but something more than just delusions or completely fabricated in setting. It's a fine line and I don't know if I would like playing a character from one or that thought it was "real" but it seems more acceptable (to me). For a couple of decades now, I've been using one of the ideas from Zelazny's Amber books in my setting. Namely, there are a (small) number of people who can "Walk in Shadow", moving from parallel world to parallel world. The vast majority of these are limited, but a very few can apparently access an unlimited number of Shadows. Most people who know of this at all assume that our world is the Real World, and that someone claiming to be a Norse Thunder God, Faerie, or Time Traveler is either insane or from a strange Shadow. However, a few have proposed an alternate theory; Our world is also just another shadow, no more real or unreal than any other. When I saw that idea proposed in Gestalt (some who know of Fantasyscapes hypothesize that the Gestalt Earth is just one more), I was very pleased. Nice to know you're reading the same source material as a writer you respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Mechanically I wouldn't build things in quite the same way as Bennie, but that's always the case for me. I see what you might mean on the mechanical issues, preference wise. Right now the only major character that's rubbing me the wrong way is Dr. Power. She presses allot of the same buttons for me that Divis Mal did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? ...a pet peeve of mine when it comes to single source settings [is]' date=' while it's possible to play a character that thinks his powers come from a different source it's never been something I've wanted to play. The main reason being in most single source settings the source is at least partially understood in-game so you're character would be consider deluded to some degree. [/quote']Well, just to quibble a bit here... I don't think that's necessarily true. I can easily envision a character whose powers/technology/whatever seemed to come from a different source, even if the omniscient narrators (the GM and players) knew the abilities really came ultimately from the same source as other abilities. To use Gestalt as a specific example, even though many people know that most superpowers come from gestalts, there's not necessarily any in-game recognition that all superpowers can come only from gestalts, and certainly not universal recognition of that. I think the character would only be considered deluded to some degree if he claimed his powers weren't from a gestalt, while many/most other characters understood that they were. As long as his belief that they're different is reasonable, and most other characters accept that belief too, then it almost doesn't matter whether or not the powers are "really" a gestalt or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Well' date=' just to quibble a bit here... I don't think that's [b']necessarily[/b] true. I can easily envision a character whose powers/technology/whatever seemed to come from a different source, even if the omniscient narrators (the GM and players) knew the abilities really came ultimately from the same source as other abilities. To use Gestalt as a specific example, even though many people know that most superpowers come from gestalts, there's not necessarily any in-game recognition that all superpowers can come only from gestalts, and certainly not universal recognition of that. Though Gestalt isn't "single source" in the pure sense I got the impression that in setting it was pretty well known that aside from limited high tech and aliens powers are known to come from a single source. There are rare examples of people that have tried to extreme levels but they're often suspect to be (and ofter turn out to be) Gestalts in denial or some sort of Chain Gestalt. And yes, it's not necessarily true in single source setting that the "source" is well known but IME it's usually is. All the true single source setting I can think off hand, it's fairly well known in the setting but I won't say all because I'm sure there are exceptions. Why I brought this up regarding Fantasyscapes is that they straddle the line. They're not "made up" so you could play a character from Asgard in Gestalt without him being a completely loony (like in Aberrant for example) but he wouldn't be an "actual" God (for certain definitions of God). That's kinda cool, IMO. I don't if that kind of character would appeal to me, but I think the concept is neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? My biggest beef with Gestalt is that I dont own a copy, and dont know where to look for one. That said, Ive read several of Mr. Bennie's other works, and liked them a lot. Ive also met him a couple of times at GenCon, and think hes one of the nicest guys in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? My biggest beef with Gestalt is that I dont own a copy, and dont know where to look for one. That said, Ive read several of Mr. Bennie's other works, and liked them a lot. Ive also met him a couple of times at GenCon, and think hes one of the nicest guys in the universe. Buy it here: http://www.blackwyrm.com/Products.htm Seriously, it rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Re: Gestalt: Is there anything you didn't like? Divis Mal in Aberrant http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Michael_Daemon_Donighal He asks Questioningly? QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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