Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

[Maur]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

Perhaps' date=' without a unifying faith to rally around, post-fall-of-Rome, Europe remains fractured and divided for centuries, and might be more susceptible to outside invaders.[/quote'] Europe was divided and fractious even with the supposed unity of a single faith. A polytheistic religion isn't really any more unifying or divisive than a monotheistic religion since in all cases you are really dealing with the Egos of people, heheh.

[Curufea]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

I wonder what religion would have got Rome's attention then?

Whichever one it was - the empire would spread that religion instead.

[Vestnik]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

I wonder what religion would have got Rome's attention then?

Whichever one it was - the empire would spread that religion instead.

 

I realize this is a highly contentious issue -- but Gibbon theorized that Rome fell precisely because it converted to Christianity (if I remember the theory correctly). So maybe the Empire would have lasted longer. Maybe.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

ISTR reading a book by Harry Turtledove (after a bit of googling, it turns out the author was Robert Silverberg) called Roma Eterna. Here's a link to an incomplete copy of the book. In it, the Exodus from Egypt either does not occur or fails. Without the nations of Judea and Israel, there is no messiah, and the children of Abraham remain a small, persecuted cult.

 

Interesting read.

 

While I was trying to find it, I ran across another book along the same lines called Romanitas by Sophia McDougall. This looks like another one I'll have to read.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

I realize this is a highly contentious issue -- but Gibbon theorized that Rome fell precisely because it converted to Christianity (if I remember the theory correctly). So maybe the Empire would have lasted longer. Maybe.

Actually, that's what Gibbon's eighteenth century critics said he said. Gibbon wanted to argue that the Romans broke Christianity, so that it could not support and strengthen the state the way that the Church of England supported modern Britain.

There are two very interesting works on Gibbon out at the moment: Porter's Gibbon is succinct, Pocock's ongoing multivolume work is fey and infuriating, but a whole buncha learning.

[Vestnik]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

Broke Christianity how?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

Broke Christianity how?

Made it Roman Catholic. Dostoevsky can explain.

At length.

[lemming]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

I keep thinking about this thread. Much more dynamic gaming environment. Raptor calvalry roaming the desert ala Lawrence...

 

i know it doesn't make sense, but i'll go for fun

[Curufea]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

I realize this is a highly contentious issue -- but Gibbon theorized that Rome fell precisely because it converted to Christianity (if I remember the theory correctly). So maybe the Empire would have lasted longer. Maybe.

 

As it was first practised, it was even more confusing and disorganised than it is today - this would have been before they had even compiled the bible together at the Council of Rome - so there were lots of small groups reading from their own handfuls of holy writings, no two sets of papers being alike.

However - it wasn't against what the Romans were practicing in their empire at the time (ie slavery was still okay) - so I don't see how it could have been responsible for the decline. Unless it made them start questioning themselves and being less arrogantly dogmatic in their organisation.

[Vestnik]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

As it was first practised' date=' it was even more confusing and disorganised than it is today - this would have been before they had even compiled the bible together at the Council of Rome - so there were lots of small groups reading from their own handfuls of holy writings, no two sets of papers being alike.

However - it wasn't against what the Romans were practicing in their empire at the time (ie slavery was still okay) - so I don't see how it could have been responsible for the decline. Unless it made them start questioning themselves and being less arrogantly dogmatic in their organisation.

 

Well the crude version of GIbbon's theory that I have received second-hand is that Christianity's nonmartial virtues caused the Empire to become less martial. This is probably a misrepresentation of what Gibbon thought though.

 

I don't think there's anything in early Christianity about slavery being wrong. I imagine it falls into the class of things that belong to Caesar.

[OddHat]

Re: Alternate Earth 3: Passionless Christ

 

There was a historical figure named Jesus that existed as a prophet but there was no crucification. He wandered the world, spreading his message but died a natural death according to historical record

 

Disclaimer: Pure speculation and not meant a commentary on anyone's religious beliefs.

 

Depends on where you want to go with the idea. My inclination would be to say that Christianity follows pretty much the same path, but without the idea that the savior died for your sins. Jesus' death was the last unavoidable sacrifice, really the core of the story. Without it, Jesus is just another prophet. I'd say Christianity would still have spread, but it wouldn't have made so radical a break with Judaism; it would effectively be evangelical Judaism. I'd guess that there would have been less theologically justified oppression of the Jews, and that religions with sacrificial rituals would have held considerably more power over people's imaginations. The modern west might still be mostly Christian if Constantine chose to adopt it, but with more pockets of Paganism around. Or, Constantine might have turned to something else to unify his empire; maybe Hinduism or even Buddhism, as he had considerable contact with India.