Silence is Golden

[Vestnik]

Hiow would you guys build a Black Bolt type of character, one who cannot speak without unleashing his feared destructive power? I have a couple of issues here.

 

1. Incantations vs. Restrainable vs. Not Usable in a Vaccum (sorry, I can never spell this word). I've never quite understood whether Incantations includes the Not in a Vacuum limitation, which would be odd since they are both -1/4 Limitations (for Incantations for an Instant power). Also, it seems a Grab could keep the character from speaking (you cover his mouth), which sounds like Restrainable, which for some reason is a -1/2 limitation, which makes me wonder why Incantations exists at all. ????

 

2. How to do the fact that he cannot speak without using his power? A Disadvantage seems appropriate, but part of me wants to say Side Effects -- which wouldn't work, since speaking is not a power.

 

Enlighten me, oh board members great and glorious!

[Doc Samson]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I think the -1 level of the No Conscious Control Limitation would cover his ability to activate the power (by speaking or not speaking), but not control it's effects (the power is always at maximum value). I would then Link his Voice (see below) to the power so that he may not speak without activating the power.

 

Voice can be quantified as a power. From 5ER pg. 352...

Voice As A “Sense”: A character cannot use his

voice to “perceive” anything. However, since characters’

voices are silenced by Darkness that affects

the Hearing Group, the voice has some Sense-like

aspects. Voice is worth 20 points as a Power.

[Vestnik]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Wow, I did not know about Voice actually being quantified. Thanks!

 

This generates another problem -- Voice is free. So if you apply Limitations to it, what happens?

[Doc Samson]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Wow, I did not know about Voice actually being quantified. Thanks!

 

This generates another problem -- Voice is free. So if you apply Limitations to it, what happens?

Well, this isn't perfect but it is how I would do it. I would take a 5 pt. Physical Limitation Disadvantage "Voice is Linked to [Destructive Power]".

[Vestnik]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Oh I do like that!

[Silbeg]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Well' date=' this isn't perfect but it is how I would do it. I would take a 5 pt. Physical Limitation Disadvantage "Voice is Linked to [Destructive Power']".

 

I would even go for more than a 5 pt disad. Mute is a 15 pt disad itself (All the Time, Slightly Impairing).

 

I would think, then, that this would be more like "Frequently, Greatly Impairing", or worse.

 

Hmm... for voice being a 20pt power (Sense), that may require some changes to my Soundwave character. He is mute, but as a side-effect of his powers. (He absorbs sound, and projects them out again).

[Cancer]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Playing a wordless character is both interesting and challenging. As a GM, I'd require the player observe that Disadvantage in play.

[braincraft]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Don't make this complicated. The guy can't talk, but he can blow stuff up?

 

Physical Limitation: Mute (All the time, greatly)

 

Energy Blast Xd6, AoE Radius, Personal Immunity, Full power only (-0)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I'm with Braincraft on this. He has a Physical Limitation (Mute, Unless) and a Power that he can't qualify (Always At Maximum Power, -1). You can make an argument for Always On (as some variants of Cyclops show) and No Conscious Control (-1) since he can be "forced to speak," thus unleashing the power itself.

[braincraft]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I don't know that 'Always at maximum power' is worth more than -1/4. It's obviously less of a limitation than 'Always on'.

[pinecone]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Hiow would you guys build a Black Bolt type of character, one who cannot speak without unleashing his feared destructive power? I have a couple of issues here.

 

1. Incantations vs. Restrainable vs. Not Usable in a Vaccum (sorry, I can never spell this word). I've never quite understood whether Incantations includes the Not in a Vacuum limitation, which would be odd since they are both -1/4 Limitations (for Incantations for an Instant power). Also, it seems a Grab could keep the character from speaking (you cover his mouth), which sounds like Restrainable, which for some reason is a -1/2 limitation, which makes me wonder why Incantations exists at all. ????

 

2. How to do the fact that he cannot speak without using his power? A Disadvantage seems appropriate, but part of me wants to say Side Effects -- which wouldn't work, since speaking is not a power.

 

Enlighten me, oh board members great and glorious!

Some version of NCC? "Power activates when speaking" ?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I don't know that 'Always at maximum power' is worth more than -1/4. It's obviously less of a limitation than 'Always on'.

 

Oh, bugger, my bad. I meant that at -1/2, based on the idea that a Standard Slot is 1/5, and an Ultra slot is 1/10; using that as my guideline, I went "Eh, -1/2" but clearly, utterly missed. You can still argue for the -1/4, but I was incorrect in my original post.

[Vestnik]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Don't make this complicated. The guy can't talk, but he can blow stuff up?

 

Well, he can talk, but if he does, it blows stuff up. This is why I was thinking of some sort of Side Effects for Voice.

[braincraft]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Well' date=' he can talk, but if he does, it blows stuff up. This is why I was thinking of some sort of Side Effects for Voice.[/quote']

 

Well, no. He can't communicate (usefully) through vocalization. (Unless the message he's trying to convey is "BLOW UP!") That's the same as being mute. He can blow stuff up, though; that's the same as having an Energy Blast. The rest is just special effects.

 

Trying to shave points off your big power is shifty. What you're talking about isn't a limitation on the power's use; it's a problem that he has to deal with in his personal life. He can still blow stuff up whenever he wants, even if he usually doesn't.

 

This is the same argument I have about Cyclops.

[Gideon]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

It depends on how you want the character to function. Blackbolt can talk, but he can only talk in barely audible whispers, and learning how to do that took him years of practice.

 

I would actually go a different rout with the build. This is what I would do:

 

Energy Blast: xd6, AoE cone (+1), Trigger [speaks or tries to speak] Activating takes no time, trigger resets automatically (+1), Restrainable (-1/2), Does not work in a vacuum (-1/4), Zero Range (-1/2)

 

If you want the power to be a little more realistic, replace AoE cone with Explosion cone. The power is sound waves, they do get weaker as they get farther from the source.

 

If you/ your GM rules that the cone starts in his hex give him personal immunity, otherwise you don't need it.

 

If it doesn't matter how loudly he speaks then do give him Must Use Power at Maximum Effect (-1/2)

 

Now the explanation...

 

I built it with trigger because if he works the same way Blackbolt does, if he makes any sound with his vocal cords and his mouth is open, he uses his power automatically.

 

I didn't build the power with Must Use at Maximum Effect, because (again if like Blackbolt) he can lower the damage to as little as 1 pip (never zero) but he needs to regulate the volume of his voice to do so. The thing is, building this as a limitation IMO is overly complicated, because technically he should need a skill roll in order to not use the power at Max, and it is just simpler to not buy the limitation and leave it up to appropriate RP. If you want you could always put it on the sheet as a -0 though of "Damage is relative to volume". Just remember his maximum damage is at normal speaking volume, so lowering his volume so much that deals no damage (1 pip) means that he is lowering his voice to the point of being close to subvocal and completely un-hearable.

 

Also, restrainable and Incantations are almost identical, yes. The problem with them is that Incantations is more limiting, but worth less. Restrainable is the appropriate limitation for this SFX, because people can't interrupt him using the power. In order to stop the power, someone would have to restrain his mouth (gag him, grab his mouth, entangle his mouth) before his action. And sadly restrainable does not automatically include "Does not work in a vacuum" unless the GM says it does.

[Vestnik]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I built it with trigger because if he works the same way Blackbolt does, if he makes any sound with his vocal cords and his mouth is open, he uses his power automatically.

 

But that makes it an advantage, no?; when actually it's a bad thing for the character? Isn't this analogous to buying a gun with Trigger (when character pulls trigger of gun)? The speaking is just the SFX of activating the power.

[Silbeg]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I built it with trigger because if he works the same way Blackbolt does, if he makes any sound with his vocal cords and his mouth is open, he uses his power automatically.

 

I think that this make Voice linked to the Sonic Attack, rather than the triggered power.

 

Since he can lower his voice (probably takes a Power skill check), he can reduce the amount of damage proportionally to the volume of his voice.

 

This would be, to me, the best way of handling this power. The primary power here would be the voice attack.

 

Now, an argument could be made to have these powers doubly-linked... as the voice attack requires that he speaks, right?

[Vestnik]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

I think that this make Voice linked to the Sonic Attack, rather than the triggered power.

 

Since he can lower his voice (probably takes a Power skill check), he can reduce the amount of damage proportionally to the volume of his voice.

 

This would be, to me, the best way of handling this power. The primary power here would be the voice attack.

 

Now, an argument could be made to have these powers doubly-linked... as the voice attack requires that he speaks, right?

 

What if he has an attack Multipower? Can you link to a Multipower?

[Silbeg]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

What if he has an attack Multipower? Can you link to a Multipower?

 

Technically, no ( see http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1995&highlight=linked+multipower)

 

Well, I would probably say that his iconic power of his would not be in a multipower at all. It is always available.

 

But, to answer your question directly, I believe you can. You could even link both ways...

 

So, outside of the MP, you would have the Voice power, with the linked to the MP (so he couldn't use the his voice without a slot being active). This would cost -7 RP (Voice, being a 20pt power, which the character has by default. Buying the limitation would make it cost 13 points, netting -7 points for this buy). I might reduce this to a -1/4, depending on the nature of the slots ...

 

As a GM, I would be hesitant to link the whole MP, but would be fine with linking a single slot. That way, you know what power he is using when he is really talking.

[Gideon]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

But that makes it an advantage' date=' no?; when actually it's a bad thing for the character? Isn't this analogous to buying a gun with Trigger (when character pulls trigger of gun)? The speaking is just the SFX of activating the power.[/quote']

 

yes and no. For this character Linked is both an advantage and a disadvantage. The power goes off any time the character attempts to speak, which means it can be used as often as the GM allows, and in whatever phases the GM allows (Activating takes no time, trigger resets automatically). But while he can use the power as a Zero Phase action (or actually as no action at all), he can also be forced to use the power more easily than normal.

 

It isn't like pulling the trigger of a gun at all. He can talk in is sleep, or have a cold and need to cough. Anything that would force him to make noise using his vocal cords would cause his power to go off. Pulling the trigger of a gun takes more thought and effort. Its the same thought as making the power No Conscious Control or giving it Side Effects, I just think mechanically it works better.

 

I think that this make Voice linked to the Sonic Attack, rather than the triggered power.

 

Since he can lower his voice (probably takes a Power skill check), he can reduce the amount of damage proportionally to the volume of his voice.

 

This would be, to me, the best way of handling this power. The primary power here would be the voice attack.

 

Now, an argument could be made to have these powers doubly-linked... as the voice attack requires that he speaks, right?

Except that Voice (even if you try to quantify it) is not an attack nor does it actually count as an ability of any kind according to the rules, and therefore you cannot link anything to it. You need to use Trigger.

 

Being able to lower his voice may take a skill roll, but that should probably be taken as a Physical Disadvantage rather than a Power Limitation. Building the power with "requires a skill roll to lower the damage from maximum" is a pain.

 

And lastly you cannot "double link" things if you are using the RAW.

[braincraft]

Re: Silence is Golden

 

Except that Voice (even if you try to quantify it) is not an attack nor does it actually count as an ability of any kind according to the rules' date=' and therefore you cannot link anything to it. You need to use Trigger.[/quote']

 

Transmit Normal Hearing, 2 points. You could probably say it's limited down to 1 point, but you already get it for free.

 

In any case, I think that allowing someone to buy a huge attack power with an instant trigger is incredibly problematic. I don't know why people are so insistent on taking special effects literally.