EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

[archermoo]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

as for HD, there are a few things (I know 1 off the top of my head) it does not do right (or at least in 2nd edition, don't know about 3 rd)

 

And that/those would be?

[JmOz]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

And that/those would be?

 

AVLD options costing +3/4 of the top of my head, based on version 2.42

[archermoo]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

AVLD options costing +3/4 of the top of my head' date=' based on version 2.42[/quote']

 

I presume you mean not having the vs. Exotic Defenses category of AVLD available? I don't know that that really qualifies as it "not doing things right" so much as just not having an option available. I thought you were talking about ways in which it implements the rules improperly.

[drunkonduty]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

Well thanks to all for the interesting discussion. I have learnt a lot. Have only recently got 5th ed and am only having my first detailed read through it now. So it was with much interest that I read the above. Heck, I never knew that about EC's in 4th ed either.

 

Of course now I have to re-do some of the practice characters I've spent the last few days doing.

[shentino]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

My two cents.

 

The only change I would make to an EC is to make it function somewhat like multiform, in that you pay a base cost based on half of the most expensive power in the EC, yet still charge the other half of each power. So if you have a 30 AP power with a 40 AP power in the same EC, you pay 20 points base cost, 15 points AP for the weak power, and 20 AP for the strong power. An EC may have some "tipsies" based on unequality, or worse, a future rule change that changes the AP cost of a component of an EC that is currently compliant with rules.

 

As far as EC's are concerened, I view them as a cohesive unit that is bound together in a unit. Take Spyro for instance. His many breaths are good, but I find it plain silly to require them to all have the same AP cost just because an EC says so. THe player may legitimately wish to have a weaker secondary weapon, such as water breath (which is relatively harmless and doesn't cause damage) versus a lighting bomb (seeker missile).

 

Themes like this almost require AP differences. The base cost seems to cover the EC-ness of the group of powers, and binds them together.

 

As far as I'm concerned, an EC is a single power that just happens to have more than one possible effect. Which is why the cost savings and neat packaging are probably offset by the "one for all and all for one" nature of drains affecting the entire EC rather than just a single slot in said EC.

 

I've never GM'ed in practice, but I find flexibility in my interpretation of "GM prerogative".

 

As far as END costs, you are allowed to use a power that costs END, even if it has the "No END" advantage. Perhaps native (aka, base) powers that don't cost END are also inappropriate for inclusion into an EC to begin with, advantages and limitatiosn that affect END usage to the contrary not withstanding.

[Paragon]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

As far as I'm concerned, an EC is a single power that just happens to have more than one possible effect. Which is why the cost savings and neat packaging are probably offset by the "one for all and all for one" nature of drains affecting the entire EC rather than just a single slot in said EC.

 

 

This only works if you run into a lot of Drains targeted at powers; otherwise its an occasional extra problem (that may not even come up in those cases depending on how the Drain is built) offset by a constant benefit.

[SteveZilla]

Re: EC's cannot have non-END powers!!!!

 

This isn't exactly on thread-topic, but the discussion seems to have evolved to encompass ECs (or the -1/4 Limitation that some would use to replace them), and negative Adjustment Powers. To balance the utility of ECs/Limitations and negative Adjustment Powers bought to affect multiple powers simultaneously, I would propose the following:

 

All powers that are "linked" by being in an EC/having the Limitation that are not directly targeted by the Adjustment Power are reduced by 1/2 effect. Only those powers directly targeted are affected at full value. No "doubling" of effect any more because it's an EC. The usual halving of effect vs Defensive Powers still would apply.

 

IMO this returns Adjustment Powers vs builds with ECs/Limitations to a more balanced perspective and less of a "one shot wonder power", and provides incentive to purchase the expanded effect on the Adjustment Power.