portional speed

[Alibear]

Re: portional speed

 

If you have already bought down a figured characteristic it would be illegal to buy down speed as Dex was purchased.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: portional speed

 

If you have already bought down a figured characteristic it would be illegal to buy down speed as Dex was purchased.

 

Does Hero Designer follow this? Someone try dropping a point of END or STUN and then bump up DEX so that it adds fractional SPD.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: portional speed

 

If you have already bought down a figured characteristic it would be illegal to buy down speed as Dex was purchased.

 

It would be legal to buy your DEX "No Figured Characteristics" for exactly the same cost, though.

 

In any case, I would suggest that a character who has a 10 DEX and a 3 SPD, who then buys +5 DEX is not buying down his SPD - he's still paying 5 points on it. If he had a 20 DEX and a 3 SPD, then I could see a case that bumping up to 23 DEX for 6 points included a sellback of SPD. But then I just buy DEX with No Figured.

[Alibear]

Re: portional speed

 

It would be legal to buy your DEX "No Figured Characteristics" for exactly the same cost, though.

 

 

I should have seen that before I posted

[archermoo]

Re: portional speed

 

If you have already bought down a figured characteristic it would be illegal to buy down speed as Dex was purchased.

 

Does Hero Designer follow this? Someone try dropping a point of END or STUN and then bump up DEX so that it adds fractional SPD.

 

Per the rules you cannot buy down any fractional SPD you have from your base SPD. I.e. if you have a 22 DEX you can't sell back .2 SPD to have a straight 3 SPD. If you sell your SPD down to 2, you get 10 points back. Not 12. This is also the way that HD handles it.

 

As I've said before (and as 5ER says on p38) fractional SPD only exists to reduce the cost of buying up your first point of extra SPD if your DEX isn't a multiple of 10.

 

As for the HD test, I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. As you add DEX your base SPD goes up. But you aren't buying SPD down unless you are taking it down a full point. I.e. if you have a 22 DEX, your base SPD is 3.2, and your SPD is 3. If you want to buy your SPD down, you have to buy it down to 2 and get 10 points. Or to 1 for 20 points. If you raise your DEX up to 28, your SPD (barring having bought it up by itself) is still 3. The base SPD is 3.8, and it would only cost 2 points to buy it up to 4. But your SPD is still 3.

 

Hero doesn't make a differentiation between things purchased before play and things purchased with XP after play starts. Unlike games like GURPS there isn't any difference bewteen the two in Hero. A 20 DEX and 4 SPD costs 40 points. It doesn't matter if you started with it or if you buy it up later, it still costs the same 40 points. And a 25 DEX and 4 SPD costs 55 points, again whether you started with it there or bought it up later. It doesn't cost an extra 5 points just because you started with a 20 DEX and 4 SPD.

[Alibear]

Re: portional speed

 

I didn't grok that.

 

If I have dex 15 and 3 speed and then buy up my dex to 17 how many points does that cost me to make that leap?

[archermoo]

Re: portional speed

 

I didn't grok that.

 

If I have dex 15 and 3 speed and then buy up my dex to 17 how many points does that cost me to make that leap?

 

DEX 15 and SPD 3 costs 20 points. DEX 17 and SPD 3 costs 24 points. So the later costs 4 more than the former.

[Silbeg]

Re: portional speed

 

My experience has been (in versions prior to the rule being codified) that fractional speeds are easily taken abused. While the player may claim that it is as a defense against drains (which, if true, should be bought as a limited Power DEF), in reality there will soon come along an Aid (or Succor) to SPD...

 

Amazing, that the character happened to have "4.4 SPD", and the SPD booster just happens to be 2d6 Aid to SPD, Standard Effect (suitably limited, or in a convenient VPP).

 

Now, the character ends up always working with a 5 SPD, since he is always getting boosted prior to fighting.

 

No, I fully agree with the "No fractional SPD" rules.

 

And, to answer the many questions about increasing DEX while keeping a purchased SPD the same, I would say that purchased DEX is effectively bought "NO Figured Characteristics".

 

I say effectively, because that isn't really true... actually you are removing 1 point spent on SPD per +1 DEX bought. If you do end up buying so much DEX that it would have an effect on the SPD of the character, then just buy the additional DEX with "No Figured...", pay the cost to increase the SPD, or just take the loss. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

[Alibear]

Re: portional speed

 

DEX 15 and SPD 3 costs 20 points. DEX 17 and SPD 3 costs 24 points. So the later costs 4 more than the former.

 

Okay I do grok that, thanks. I think.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: portional speed

 

My experience has been (in versions prior to the rule being codified) that fractional speeds are easily taken abused. While the player may claim that it is as a defense against drains (which, if true, should be bought as a limited Power DEF), in reality there will soon come along an Aid (or Succor) to SPD...

 

Amazing, that the character happened to have "4.4 SPD", and the SPD booster just happens to be 2d6 Aid to SPD, Standard Effect (suitably limited, or in a convenient VPP).

 

And he paid 4 points for +0.4 SPD instead of putting a 3.5d6 Aid with standard effect, suitably limited or in a convenient VPP and still always having a 5 SPD. I think the problem here, if there is one, does not rest with the fractional SPD.

[薔薇語]

Re: portional speed

 

Per the rules you cannot buy down any fractional SPD you have from your base SPD. I.e. if you have a 22 DEX you can't sell back .2 SPD to have a straight 3 SPD. If you sell your SPD down to 2, you get 10 points back. Not 12. This is also the way that HD handles it.

 

As I've said before (and as 5ER says on p38) fractional SPD only exists to reduce the cost of buying up your first point of extra SPD if your DEX isn't a multiple of 10.

 

As for the HD test, I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. As you add DEX your base SPD goes up. But you aren't buying SPD down unless you are taking it down a full point. I.e. if you have a 22 DEX, your base SPD is 3.2, and your SPD is 3. If you want to buy your SPD down, you have to buy it down to 2 and get 10 points. Or to 1 for 20 points. If you raise your DEX up to 28, your SPD (barring having bought it up by itself) is still 3. The base SPD is 3.8, and it would only cost 2 points to buy it up to 4. But your SPD is still 3.

 

Hero doesn't make a differentiation between things purchased before play and things purchased with XP after play starts. Unlike games like GURPS there isn't any difference bewteen the two in Hero. A 20 DEX and 4 SPD costs 40 points. It doesn't matter if you started with it or if you buy it up later, it still costs the same 40 points. And a 25 DEX and 4 SPD costs 55 points, again whether you started with it there or bought it up later. It doesn't cost an extra 5 points just because you started with a 20 DEX and 4 SPD.

 

I wasn't talking about buying your SPD down below its starting value at any point in my post. I was talking about buying it up though. And in referance, if I have a dex 10 SPD 3 character and buy +1 Dex (yes this is using HD) it cost the character 2pts not three becuase HD never allows you to have a fractional SPD value after you have bought or Sold off SPD. Now I never actually knew about the buying it down thing where you don't get points back for that fraction you lose and I think that should change as well since it essentaily cost the character more for less.

 

My experience has been (in versions prior to the rule being codified) that fractional speeds are easily taken abused. While the player may claim that it is as a defense against drains (which, if true, should be bought as a limited Power DEF), in reality there will soon come along an Aid (or Succor) to SPD...

 

Amazing, that the character happened to have "4.4 SPD", and the SPD booster just happens to be 2d6 Aid to SPD, Standard Effect (suitably limited, or in a convenient VPP).

 

Now, the character ends up always working with a 5 SPD, since he is always getting boosted prior to fighting.

 

No, I fully agree with the "No fractional SPD" rules.

 

Now I believe I understand your concern and that is something every GM should consider, just like every other possible power build, or anything else purchases by PCs. Now I would ask if there was a SPD cap in the game you refered to? And if so was 5 above it? IF not I would say that, the build would be perfectly legal in my game (barring other conditions, beyond a strick SPD value). The reason why is becuase the characters is legimitly paying for something out of character points he has. As GM I should consider him buying fractional SPD every bit as carefully has him buying an extra DC of HKA. If I think it will be unbalancing I don't allow that exact build, I however don't forbid him and everyone one else from buying only whole amounts of HKA(ie 3DC or 1D6), or only Full values of SPD, but rather judge each build on its own merits. After all the rules are there to enable the characters to do the best they can, the GM is there to make sure everyone stays in step with eachother.

 

La Rose.

 

PS.: One die of Aid is equal to +1Spd. He is spending 24pts, in your example, for a +1spd rather than buying +1 spd straight for 10pts. That is 240% more costly and doesn't automatically work sine aid still needs to hit and roll enought effect. Also Aid requires and action to use, and a basic +1Spd doesn't. So really is it that much of an advantage to the PC?

[archermoo]

Re: portional speed

 

I wasn't talking about buying your SPD down below its starting value at any point in my post. I was talking about buying it up though. And in referance' date=' if I have a dex 10 SPD 3 character and buy +1 Dex (yes this is using HD) it cost the character 2pts not three becuase HD never allows you to have a fractional SPD value after you have bought or Sold off SPD. Now I never actually knew about the buying it down thing where you don't get points back for that fraction you lose and I think that should change as well since it essentaily cost the character more for less. [/quote']

 

You might not have mentioned buying SPD down, but the posts that I was replying to did.

 

And yes, in most circumstances if you are increasing DEX while keeping SPD the same, the DEX effectively costs 2 CP per +1. Or more accurately the +1 DEX costs 3 points, but your SPD gets 1 point cheaper.

[SteveZilla]

Re: portional speed

 

Rather than have a 3.3 Speed' date=' I'd rather buy +1 SPD, Act 8-. At PS 12, you roll, and on an 8- you have a 4 SPD next turn. I have a character buying his SPD up in this fashion.[/quote']

 

Activation Rolls are supposed to be rolled each Phase the character wants to use or maintain the power (5ER, 283). That means that Mr. SPD 3, +1 SPD, Act 8- would have to make that roll on every one of his (now) 4 Phases to maintain that SPD throughout his Turn.