brand new and trying to figure things out

[Melanieshaman]

Hey guys!

 

I'm brand new to hero/Champions and boy it the book a bit overwhelming! LOL

 

Ok i bought the 5th ed. Rev. and i already have a universe of characters but i wanted to start with the most important thing in my universe... ok here goes; I have a race of immortals and i'm trying to come up with a sort of skill/power set to base them off of, then go from there. They WILL be VERY rare like i think i have less then 6-8 in my entire universe (so far).

 

Little touch of what i'm going for; The are (der) Immortal, they have a sort of resevour of power that in dire circumstances they can call on it to give them like one last push or burst of power (not quite close to death sort of thing)... they are highly resilient (damage-physical), there is another world just a slight bit out of step with ours that they can "jump" to..they call "side stepping" (lame) so that would be what? Extradimensional movement... and they have to focus for a few seconds to do it... and of course they would be well educated and experienced because of thier immortality.

 

Soooo, this is what i have so far tell me if it makes sense;

 

Cruetalen (race name)

Immortal-5 pts

Damage Reduction

Resistant (50%)-30 pts

Endurance Reserve 100 END, 10 REC-20 pts

Extra-Dimensinal Movement

Single local/single dimension

Concentration (0 DCV)

10 pts (total-i think)

Fluent in 3 languages (worldly)-9 pts

 

 

 

so far that's what i have... tell me what you think and any advice you may have.

 

Thanks for any help guys

 

Melanieshaman

 

 

ps i look forward to posting all about my universe and my characters as soon as i get a good grip on the system for creating characters.

[Chris-M]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Hello and welcome aboard! We're glad to have you.

 

It seems like you're on the right track. A couple questions/observations:

 

 

• Are these PCs? Potential allies/villains?
  
• Is this a heroic or superheroic campaign?
  
• That Damage Reduction -- holy cow, you're talking about some dudes that will be *really* hard to kill or seriously hurt, at least via conventional combat. That may be what you want, and it's not unworkable, I just want you to seriously think about it.
  
• What exactly is this side-step power (not at all a lame name, btw) for? Will adventuring be happening in both worlds? Is it just a way for them to move from Point A to Point B in our world without being detected? If the latter, I have a couple ways to build such a power that would work better.
  
• That Endurance Reserve is a whole lot of END, but of course that depends on if these guys are going to have other superpowers or not. Also, for what you're going for, I think, you may want to apply some Limitations to it like "Can only be used if Stun or Body is below 25%" and/or maybe add a "Based on Ego Roll" Limitation to reflect that they have to summon the focus of will to tap into it.
  

 

But overall you're definitely on the right track and making good progress. Definitely tell us more.

[Melanieshaman]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Hello and welcome aboard! We're glad to have you.

 

It seems like you're on the right track. A couple questions/observations:

 

 

• Are these PCs? Potential allies/villains?
  
• Is this a heroic or superheroic campaign?
  
• That Damage Reduction -- holy cow, you're talking about some dudes that will be *really* hard to kill or seriously hurt, at least via conventional combat. That may be what you want, and it's not unworkable, I just want you to seriously think about it.
  
• What exactly is this side-step power (not at all a lame name, btw) for? Will adventuring be happening in both worlds? Is it just a way for them to move from Point A to Point B in our world without being detected? If the latter, I have a couple ways to build such a power that would work better.
  
• That Endurance Reserve is a whole lot of END, but of course that depends on if these guys are going to have other superpowers or not. Also, for what you're going for, I think, you may want to apply some Limitations to it like "Can only be used if Stun or Body is below 25%" and/or maybe add a "Based on Ego Roll" Limitation to reflect that they have to summon the focus of will to tap into it.
  

 

But overall you're definitely on the right track and making good progress. Definitely tell us more.

 

 

thanks!

 

ok let me get right to it... yes these are supers (per say)

 

I guess i don't quite understand the levels and such if my damage reduction is high.. basically only another super can hurt them, and even then, if they are a meduim or low powered super they will struggle.

 

As for side-step... it's basically a way for these immortals to travel back and forth to this other dimension... not in combat i included the "concentrate" thingy... bascially they have to have a few moments to focus and find the "spot" to step sideways. It's not really a stealth thing, it just a way to travel only for thier kind.

 

And the END reserve...ya they will have other powers... i guess i have ALOT of research to do... i'm still grasping the concepts and getting my head around everything... i tend to jump in with both feet and get confused LOL.

 

Thanks for the advice

 

Melanieshaman

[Chris-M]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Well, that Damage Reduction will certainly make them very tough. It depends on what exactly you're trying to simulate (in Hero we often talk about starting with the special effect and then working back to the mechanics). Are these guys supposed to be bullets-bounce-off-them tough like Superman? Are they supposed to tough in the way that, say, Wolverine or Zelazny's Amberites are tough (in which case you might go with a sliver of non-resistant Damage Reduction and some Regeneration)?

 

With the Side-Step, it sounds like you're on the right track then. Are distances between the two realms parallel? By that I mean, if one of your immortals side-steps back to his home dimension, and walks for half-a-mile in his world, and then side-steps back to our, will he have walked half-a-mile in our world?

 

Also, are they able to see between dimensions? How do they know where they're going to end up when they Side-Step? Do they have just one spot each back in their world that they always return to, or is it some spot in their world roughly parallel to ours? Just trying to get a more exact sense of how you want the ability to work so we can figure out the best way to build it.

 

Don't worry about jumping in with both feet -- I applaud your courage. Best place to learn to swim is the deep end (and the beauty of this is that you don't have to worry about drowning here ).

[Melanieshaman]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Well, that Damage Reduction will certainly make them very tough. It depends on what exactly you're trying to simulate (in Hero we often talk about starting with the special effect and then working back to the mechanics). Are these guys supposed to be bullets-bounce-off-them tough like Superman? Are they supposed to tough in the way that, say, Wolverine or Zelazny's Amberites are tough (in which case you might go with a sliver of non-resistant Damage Reduction and some Regeneration)?

 

With the Side-Step, it sounds like you're on the right track then. Are distances between the two realms parallel? By that I mean, if one of your immortals side-steps back to his home dimension, and walks for half-a-mile in his world, and then side-steps back to our, will he have walked half-a-mile in our world?

 

Also, are they able to see between dimensions? How do they know where they're going to end up when they Side-Step? Do they have just one spot each back in their world that they always return to, or is it some spot in their world roughly parallel to ours? Just trying to get a more exact sense of how you want the ability to work so we can figure out the best way to build it.

 

Don't worry about jumping in with both feet -- I applaud your courage. Best place to learn to swim is the deep end (and the beauty of this is that you don't have to worry about drowning here ).

 

No, not bullets bouncing thing, just really resilient to non superpowers i guess is what i'm going for.

 

Actually the way i was hoping to work it, is each immortal has a "home spot" in both dimensions... these can be changed but takes great effort and several days in the new spot alone in meditation. Basically its like a elevator that only goes from the first to the top and back.. each time they side-step they end up in the same "homespot". I.E.; my earth homespot is my apartment, and my other dimension home spot is a hidden grove... those are my destinations irregardless of where i make the step. they cannot "see" where they are going but typically it's someplace known to be safe most of the time if not all the time. Also, they can ssnce if thier homespot is in danger while making the concentration before the step.

 

Again thanks for ALL your help... this is beginning to make sense LOL

 

Melanieshaman

[casualplayer]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

What you have currently seems fine, melanieshaman. The hardest thing about what you are working on is that Immortality usually involves a whole suite of abilities beyond the Does Not Age part of Life Support.

 

Can the Cruetalen starve to death? Can they drown? Can they succumb to disease? Does medication work on them? Poisons? Can aging be induced in them, say by a magical spell or potion?

 

In addition to the powers you have listed Immortality usually involves a smidge of Power Defense that protects against environmental/aging effects and some level of Regeneration/self-only Healing. You would likely be better off with a Recovery (REC) or END Aid rather than the END Reserve; it's pricy and confusing to make powers able to draw from both personal END and an END Reserve.

[Melanieshaman]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

What you have currently seems fine, melanieshaman. The hardest thing about what you are working on is that Immortality usually involves a whole suite of abilities beyond the Does Not Age part of Life Support.

 

Can the Cruetalen starve to death? Can they drown? Can they succumb to disease? Does medication work on them? Poisons? Can aging be induced in them, say by a magical spell or potion?

 

In addition to the powers you have listed Immortality usually involves a smidge of Power Defense that protects against environmental/aging effects and some level of Regeneration/self-only Healing. You would likely be better off with a Recovery (REC) or END Aid rather than the END Reserve; it's pricy and confusing to make powers able to draw from both personal END and an END Reserve.

 

hmm hadn't really gotten that far, i think yes they can drown and starve, but are highly resistant (takes longer), So tell me how would you define that sort of Immortality? with the changes you suggest...

 

Melanieshaman

[Doc Democracy]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

You are coming up against one of the big things about Hero. It can often mean a lot of preparatory work and, when you are doing it the first time, you can get drawn into doing too much work.

 

The Cruetalen are a race with a number of abilities. The first question is whether you are going to allow players to play this race.

 

If you are then you need a good idea of how things like immortality work for them. If not then you can simply decide that membership of the race is a perk worth (for example) 40 points and handwave a lot fo the effects (such as resistance to aging effects and starving and drowning). It is fiddly to do this kind of thing.

 

If you find yourself having (or simply wanting) to model such things you have to sit down and describe the effects in text first. It is really worth sitting down and getting a good full, textual description of what you want to achieve before you delve into the powers section of the rulebook.

 

Think about what it means to be a Cruetalen and then model it.

 

When it comes to a suite of things like Cruetalen Immortality then it is up to you to describe and model that - all we can do is point out some of the things you might have missed (like the power defence against aging effects). Personally you need a defence power that addresses SFX (something that the core Hero rules does not provide) - something like 10points versus aging effects that would work against normal attacks that use aging as an SFX, against adjustment powers with that SFX and transformations and other complex powers with that SFX. You can search the boards for discussions round this but it would be up to you if you wanted to allow this and how much you would charge or whether you would simply buy a suite of defences that you would limit (only versus against aging SFX).

 

Obviously come to the boards with questions and for ideas but it will come down to how you want your game to run.

 

Hero demands a lot from its GMs. It will be worth you learning where you have to put effort in and where you can simply declare certain things to be so.

 

 

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

hmm hadn't really gotten that far' date=' i think yes they can drown and starve, but are highly resistant (takes longer), So tell me how would you define that sort of Immortality? with the changes you suggest...[/quote']

 

Life Support components such as food and breathing are granular, and can be purchased at "takes longer" levels rather than full immunity, so that part is pretty easy.

[Chris-M]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Those are all really good points, especially Doc's -- if the immortals won't be PCs, you could just make a Perk, maybe 10, 20 points, call it "Cruetalen Immortality" and then just define it with descriptive text. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You could take a similar approach with the Side-Step power too (see below).

 

For the toughness thing, it sounds like the way to go might just be to give them, as part of their racial package, reasonably high PDs and EDs and then make them resistant via Damage Resistance. At, say, 25 PD, 20 ED, resistant, they won't take Body from knives, most grenades, or all but the most powerful firearms. They'll take some Stun, but give them hefty CONs as part of their racial package and the Stun damage they take won't stun them. In other words, non-super weapons won't do much, if any, Body damage, and most of the time they won't feel it, but a powerful attack might sting a little. After that it's up to you whether or not you want to give them regeneration-style self-healing or not.

 

So the Side-Step power could be handled the same way as the Immortality issue if the Cruetalens are NPCs -- make it a Perk, charge 'em 20 points for it or whatever, and describe it with text, since it's a fairly straightforward go-from-point-A-to-point-B sort of thing.

 

If you need to define it mechanically, though, you'd probably want to make it a Transdimensional Teleport with some Megascale applied (they may be using fixed locations, but if you want them to, say, teleport from any location on Earth back to their fixed location in their home dimension, the horizontal distance, if you were to overlay a map of their world over a map of the Earth, still has to be covered -- again, unless you as GM just want to handwave that away). Give them each two Floating locations, one on Earth and one in their home dimension, and just give them a -0 Limitation that each Floating location can only be changed once per month.

 

Hope this helps (and makes sense). Feel free to ask more questions if there's anything that doesn't make sense to you.

[Melanieshaman]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Wow! thanks for all the suggestions guys! I really wasn't expecting so much help... the internet tends to be a bit elitist to "new" people in thier realm. Anyway, i think for now... Cruetalens will be an npc race just to make MY life easier and i can redefine them for a PC race down the road.

 

Again i really appreciate all the assistance, and i feel good about coming here and asking questions..soooooooo.. i think i'll stay

 

Melanie

[Chris-M]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Again i really appreciate all the assistance' date=' and i feel good about coming here and asking questions..soooooooo.. i think i'll stay [/quote']

 

Glad to hear it. And it's really our pleasure to help. It's always great to hear about someone who's just starting to get into Hero for the first time.

 

I hope things go well with your game. Please keep us posted on how it goes, and feel free to post any additional questions you may have.

[ghost-angel]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Wow! thanks for all the suggestions guys! I really wasn't expecting so much help... the internet tends to be a bit elitist to "new" people in thier realm. Anyway, i think for now... Cruetalens will be an npc race just to make MY life easier and i can redefine them for a PC race down the road.

 

Again i really appreciate all the assistance, and i feel good about coming here and asking questions..soooooooo.. i think i'll stay

 

Melanie

 

Welcome to Hero.

 

We like to answer questions. Lots of them.

 

This is probably one of the friendliest boards you'll encounter - even when we get into arguments we're pretty civil about it.

 

You can ask us any question you want, and we'll give you as many answers as we can think of. And remember the biggest thing about getting answers to How To questions - all the answers will be right, you just have to find the answer that is right for you.

[casualplayer]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Wow! thanks for all the suggestions guys! I really wasn't expecting so much help... the internet tends to be a bit elitist to "new" people in thier realm. Anyway, i think for now... Cruetalens will be an npc race just to make MY life easier and i can redefine them for a PC race down the road.

 

Again i really appreciate all the assistance, and i feel good about coming here and asking questions..soooooooo.. i think i'll stay

 

Melanie

 

Groovy.

 

As a GM, I've always lived by the rule that if the PCs don't need to see it, I don't have to write it down.

[Barton]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Strongly recommend UNTIL Superpowers book.

Also recommend HeroDesigner. It makes making characters and bad guys easy.

[CTaylor]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

Generally speaking you'll find Hero players are always looking for converts and are very welcoming.

[Melanieshaman]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

well, i really appreciate all the kind words and help so far, i'm sure i'll have TONS of questions, and i won't clog up the boards with them, i will keep em here. I think i'm gonna start building some npcs and see how it goes... but, as far as stats go... what's like top human for most things? like STR? DEX? etc... i have so much to leanr about all these numbers and stats...LOL

 

Melanie

[ghost-angel]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

well, i really appreciate all the kind words and help so far, i'm sure i'll have TONS of questions, and i won't clog up the boards with them, i will keep em here. I think i'm gonna start building some npcs and see how it goes... but, as far as stats go... what's like top human for most things? like STR? DEX? etc... i have so much to leanr about all these numbers and stats...LOL

 

Melanie

 

Actually, it might be better if you make new threads for distinct questions. And even post some genre specific ones in the appropriate Genre section.

 

As far as top human goes - Normal Characteristic Maximum is 20. Which is considered the highest a 'normal' person can get. And absolute maximum usually tops at 30.

 

But, you can change any or all of that depending on what you need out of your campaign.

[SteveZilla]

EDM! EDM! (Gosh, that sounds like Dorothy.)

 

Actually the way i was hoping to work it' date=' is each immortal has a "home spot" in both dimensions... these can be changed but takes great effort and several days in the new spot alone in meditation. Basically its like a elevator that only goes from the first to the top and back.. each time they side-step they end up in the same "homespot". I.E.; my earth homespot is my apartment, and my other dimension home spot is a hidden grove... those are my destinations irregardless of where i make the step. they cannot "see" where they are going but typically it's someplace known to be safe most of the time if not all the time. Also, they can sense if thier homespot is in danger while making the concentration before the step.[/quote']

 

8 Extra-Dimensional Movement: Single Other Dimension, Any Location (25 Active Points) - Concentration(1/2 DCV; -1/4), Extra Time(1 Turn; -3/4), Can Only Travel to One "Home Spot" Location In Each Dimension(-1/2), Changing The "Home Spot" Location Takes 1 Day Of Meditation At New Location(-1/2)

 

11 Danger Sense PER +7, Out Of Combat (22 Active Points) - Only when using EDM(-1)

 

What happens if the "Home Spot" is destroyed or rendered unfit (i.e., travel there would kill the "immortal")? It would seem that this would effectively "seal off" that dimension from them, as that was the only place to which they they *could* travel...

[CTaylor]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

The 5th edition tome has a page in the Characteristics section in which benchmarks are laid down, what the equivalent to each stat level is like (such as a 20 comeliness = supermodel, etc).

[Barton]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

The 5th edition tome has a page in the Characteristics section in which benchmarks are laid down' date=' what the equivalent to each stat level is like (such as a 20 comeliness = supermodel, etc).[/quote']

In 5th Ed. revised see pages 28 and 29.

Also check out pages 32 and 40 for more good tables about stats and what power levels they translate to.

[Melanieshaman]

Re: brand new and trying to figure things out

 

In 5th Ed. revised see pages 28 and 29.

Also check out pages 32 and 40 for more good tables about stats and what power levels they translate to.

 

thanks guys i will mark those pages.

 

Melanie