Questions from a New Hero

[ghost-angel]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

You have to make 50 Posts on the boards - posts in the Non Gaming Discussion (NGD) area do not count.

 

Once you have a Post Count of 50 you magically have Rep Power.

[CTaylor]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Or is more easily restrained than normal.

 

Correct I thought of that after I hit Post and decided it wasn't worth an edit, thanks for adding it in!

[badger3k]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

the bow

if your 40 str is at 0 end cost then it would be no problem to carry it all day

I'd treat it as a wand that requires 2 hands to use(no need for a quiver)

the weight of it can be an advantage to you(hardly anybody could steal it)

maybe call it an OAF and call it a personal focus(need to know the secret way to use it or it was made just for you) and don't worry about the weight

or call it an OIF that you can summon to your hand if it is in sight

 

If the character can call the bow to her from a line of sight, then I'm not sure I'd go with a focus at all. Sure, you can put a towel over it and prevent her from summoning it, but...either way.

 

I agree with the carrying bit - if it's a superheroic campaign, I wouldn't worry about the cost, and for the arrows I'd go with either a multipower and ultra slots or use charges (the MP seems a better fit if she has different "arrows".

 

Also, if you can, the Until Super-Power Database (and the ultimate books) have many variations of common powers that make it extremely easy to set someone up (even if you enjoy tinkering, they can give some base powers).

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

I would like for Allura to be completely immune to all Terrestrial Toxins, diseases, and everything with one exception:

 

Alcohol affects her like Fruit Juice affects humans. And Fruit Juice affects her like beer, gin and whiskey affects you Earthlings.

 

What will the other players think when they see her down a TALL glass of Tequila at breakfast?

 

(I'm sorry for this question but the Life Support table on page 198 is a bit confusing.)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

10 Points Life Support: Immunity All Toxins/Poisons

 

Physical Limitation: Fruit Juice Gets Her Drunk (Infrequently, Slightly) 5pts

[Sean Waters]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

...or, for something like that, I'd just note that she has an altered metabolism and that alcohol works like fruit juice and vice versa, no points and no disadvantages. I appreciate this might be a bit of a shock coming from me as I normaly want to track the points on everything, and, depending on how it was used in-game I might change my mind, but on the face of it it just seems like a bit of colour and could be considered the realm of sfx.

 

Maybe.

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

OK.

 

Whilst in the Laundry room, I was looking through The Book. I have a question about Hardened (No Viagra jokes, plz ).

 

Do I buy 3 levels of Hardened on my Resistant PD at the same time or do I need to buy 1 level at a time stating whether it applies to Armor Piercing, or Penetrating or Indirect? And would you (as a GM) allow this in your game? Currently, Allura has 20 rPD/20 rED.

 

Also, I've seen the term 'Munchkinizing' (or something like that) on these boards. What does it mean, and is that what I'm trying to do with Allura?

[Tonio]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

OK.

 

Whilst in the Laundry room, I was looking through The Book. I have a question about Hardened (No Viagra jokes, plz ).

 

Do I buy 3 levels of Hardened on my Resistant PD at the same time or do I need to buy 1 level at a time stating whether it applies to Armor Piercing, or Penetrating or Indirect? And would you (as a GM) allow this in your game? Currently, Allura has 20 rPD/20 rED.

 

Also, I've seen the term 'Munchkinizing' (or something like that) on these boards. What does it mean, and is that what I'm trying to do with Allura?

 

You can buy as many levels of Hardened as you wish, and you have to specify what Advantage they work against, for those cases when more than one applies. For example, if you buy one level of Hardened, and specify it works against Armor Piercing, and are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating or one level of Armor Piercing, the Penetrating or Armor Piercing is countered by your Hardened. If you are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating and one level of Armor Piercing, then the Armor Piercing is countered, not the Penetrating. Basically, when you buy Hardened, you decide what it works against when it could apply to more than one thing.

 

"Munchkin" is a term used to describe people who blatantly ignore common sense, unspoken rules, fairness, and character concept in favor of power. For example, trying to apply a Limitation "Not for Offensive ECV" on your EGO when you have no mental powers (and hence no use for ECV) is considered munchkiny (and, I believe, not rules-legal). Stacking Limitation upon Limitation on your powers when you believe the Limitations overlap or won't be an issue, in order to reduce the power's cost without actually limiting it, is also considered munchkiny.

[badger3k]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

You can buy as many levels of Hardened as you wish' date=' and you have to specify what Advantage they work against, for those cases when more than one applies. For example, if you buy one level of Hardened, and specify it works against Armor Piercing, and are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating [i']or[/i] one level of Armor Piercing, the Penetrating or Armor Piercing is countered by your Hardened. If you are attacked with an attack with one level of Penetrating and one level of Armor Piercing, then the Armor Piercing is countered, not the Penetrating. Basically, when you buy Hardened, you decide what it works against when it could apply to more than one thing.

 

"Munchkin" is a term used to describe people who blatantly ignore common sense, unspoken rules, fairness, and character concept in favor of power. For example, trying to apply a Limitation "Not for Offensive ECV" on your EGO when you have no mental powers (and hence no use for ECV) is considered munchkiny (and, I believe, not rules-legal). Stacking Limitation upon Limitation on your powers when you believe the Limitations overlap or won't be an issue, in order to reduce the power's cost without actually limiting it, is also considered munchkiny.

 

Hardened does not have to be specified when purchased (it says you can, though, not must) (p115 is where this is from). One level can only apply to one of those at a time. If you get hit with an AP attack and have one level of hardened, it applies. If you get hit with an AP Penetrating attack and have one level of hardened, you apply it to whichever one you want, and the other goes through. That's why you can buy multiple levels - to counteract more then one effect at a time, or to counteract multiple levels of an advantage.

 

For references, skimming though some books I can't see any Hardened where it is assigned a specific advantage. The body armor in Dark Champions just lists Hardened, same in Ultimate Energy Projector (that I can see) - I'm pretty certain the advantage is for all. If you want to limit it, maybe lower the advantage to +1/4 or +1/2, depending on how common the attack it defends against is (and how uncommon the others are).

 

Edit - Any limitation that is not actually limiting is not worth anything. Buying high STR, not usable when dead, is not worth any limitation. Buying something with "not usable in space" is not a limitation for a ground-based fantasy game. Buying something that will not work on Wednesdays, while not technically illegal, will be worth nothing unless the game keeps track of days, or a lot of the game takes place on Wednesdays (it could happen).

 

(although, looking at my first example, if the game involves frequent death and turning into undead, the first may be worth something, but that would be a pretty rare case (albeit maybe an interesting game))

[Tonio]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Hardened does not have to be specified when purchased (it says you can, though, not must) (p115 is where this is from). One level can only apply to one of those at a time. If you get hit with an AP attack and have one level of hardened, it applies. If you get hit with an AP Penetrating attack and have one level of hardened, you apply it to whichever one you want, and the other goes through. That's why you can buy multiple levels - to counteract more then one effect at a time, or to counteract multiple levels of an advantage.

 

For references, skimming though some books I can't see any Hardened where it is assigned a specific advantage. The body armor in Dark Champions just lists Hardened, same in Ultimate Energy Projector (that I can see) - I'm pretty certain the advantage is for all. If you want to limit it, maybe lower the advantage to +1/4 or +1/2, depending on how common the attack it defends against is (and how uncommon the others are).

 

Hm, true... says you can define it. Although why you would is beyond me. In the example, though, it says Defender bought his Hardened as working towards Penetrating first (did he, really??).

 

In any case, what you define is, basically, the order in which it applies, not which one it only applies to. (That is, if you define it was working towards Armor Piercing first, that doesn't mean it won't apply to Penetrating, but rather that if you're hit with a power that has both, then it applies to Armor Piercing instead of Penetrating.)

 

I guess it's kinda hard to explain. =/

[Tonio]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Edit - Any limitation that is not actually limiting is not worth anything. Buying high STR, not usable when dead, is not worth any limitation. Buying something with "not usable in space" is not a limitation for a ground-based fantasy game. Buying something that will not work on Wednesdays, while not technically illegal, will be worth nothing unless the game keeps track of days, or a lot of the game takes place on Wednesdays (it could happen).

 

(although, looking at my first example, if the game involves frequent death and turning into undead, the first may be worth something, but that would be a pretty rare case (albeit maybe an interesting game))

 

Right! The game itself has rules to prevent munchkinism, hehe.

[badger3k]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Hm' date=' true... says you [i']can[/i] define it. Although why you would is beyond me. In the example, though, it says Defender bought his Hardened as working towards Penetrating first (did he, really??).

 

In any case, what you define is, basically, the order in which it applies, not which one it only applies to. (That is, if you define it was working towards Armor Piercing first, that doesn't mean it won't apply to Penetrating, but rather that if you're hit with a power that has both, then it applies to Armor Piercing instead of Penetrating.)

 

I guess it's kinda hard to explain. =/

 

That's probably not a bad way to do it, but the official uses of it don't make such distinctions (even Defender in News of the World just has the generic "hardened"). It wouldn't be bad to specify which would work first if the campaign uses those advantages fairly often - in fact, if such things are common, I'd make it a requirement to specify the order (just to establish SOP). Those advantages are pretty rare in my games (the most is AP), so it really hasn't come up.

 

Also, some fx might give guidance - for example, magic chainmail hardened might be more resistant to penetrating while being more vulnerable to AP, or the opposite (it might resist the AP, but be affected by penetrating as the links bite into flesh ).

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

OK. I want to make absolutely sure that my age-addled brain is understanding what you all are saying.

 

If I buy 1 level of Hardened (applied to Allura's rPD) and she gets attacked (and hit) by a power that has AP -or- Penetrating -or- Indirect, the 1 level of Hardened automatically protects her.

 

If I buy 2 levels of Hardened, I have to specify when I buy it which 2 (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) it protects against AND in which order.

 

Right?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

OK. I want to make absolutely sure that my age-addled brain is understanding what you all are saying.

 

If I buy 1 level of Hardened (applied to Allura's rPD) and she gets attacked (and hit) by a power that has AP -or- Penetrating -or- Indirect, the 1 level of Hardened automatically protects her.

 

Correct, except that Indirect doesn't allow someone to bypass personal Defenses like innate PD, Armor, or Force Field. It may bypass a "barrier" type Defense like a Force Wall, unless the FW has the Hardened Advantage.

 

If I buy 2 levels of Hardened' date=' I have to specify [b']when I buy it[/b] which 2 (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) it protects against AND in which order.

 

Right?

 

Well, it's a little more granular than that. Think of it as a one-to-one correspondence. One level of Hardened will prevent the effects of one level of either Armor Piercing or Penetrating. Two levels of either Armor Piercing or Penetrating will bypass one level of Hardened, affecting you as it would if the Defense were not Hardened. If you have one level of Hardened, and you're hit with an attack with both one level of Armor Piercing and one level of Penetrating (or Indirect in the case of Force Wall), you should have defined which of these Advantages the Defense will block first -- the one not chosen will affect you as it normally would.

 

If you have two levels of Hardened, then your Defense will block any two of those Advantages, e.g. x2 Armor Piercing, or Armor Piercing + Penetrating. If you envision an attack in your campaign with three such Advantages, then you'll need to define what order they're stopped in. Such attacks are likely to be very rare, though, if they appear at all.

[badger3k]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

OK. I want to make absolutely sure that my age-addled brain is understanding what you all are saying.

 

If I buy 1 level of Hardened (applied to Allura's rPD) and she gets attacked (and hit) by a power that has AP -or- Penetrating -or- Indirect, the 1 level of Hardened automatically protects her.

 

If I buy 2 levels of Hardened, I have to specify when I buy it which 2 (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) it protects against AND in which order.

 

Right?

 

No. You can specify which one will be taken off first...if you want.

 

Otherwise, if she has one level of hardened and gets hit by any of the three, it automatically protects her from that.

 

If she has two levels of hardened and gets hit with an AP and Penetrating attack(s), one level would protect against AP, one against Penetrating.

 

Same if she had three and three attacks hit here.

 

Now, if she was hit with AP and Penetrating attacks, and had only one level of hardened, then it would work for one but not the other. This is where you can specify when you buy the power the order in which it would stop them, but you don't have to.

 

If she had two levels of hardened, and got hit with an AP(2 levels) attack, it would work for both levels, but if she were hit with an AP(3 levels) or an AP(2)+Penetrating, then her defenses would only work for two of those levels (all AP but lets penetrating through, Stops Penetrating and 1 level AP but is affected by one level of AP, etc).

 

1 level of Hardened stops 1 level of one advantage, at a time.

It can stop an AP attack the first strike, and a Penetrating the next, but not both in the same attack. The specifying just makes it easier to keep track and keeps it consistent.

 

Did that help?

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

I just composed a reply, but the @#$#%$ Internet just ate it. I'll try to recompose it (and myself).

 

I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have to decide which one (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) the level of Hardened protects against when you buy it?

 

It would be like buying 20 pts of Damage Resistance, and waiting to be hit by something, and then saying, 'Oh, my Damage Resistance will apply to my PD this Phase.' I just don't see what the difference is.

 

And the murky waters just got murkier . . .

[badger3k]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

I just composed a reply, but the @#$#%$ Internet just ate it. I'll try to recompose it (and myself).

 

I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have to decide which one (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) the level of Hardened protects against when you buy it?

 

It would be like buying 20 pts of Damage Resistance, and waiting to be hit by something, and then saying, 'Oh, my Damage Resistance will apply to my PD this Phase.' I just don't see what the difference is.

 

And the murky waters just got murkier . . .

Don't you just love working on a post for an hour, then having it disappear into the intertubes?

 

No, you can but you don't have to.

 

Damage resistance is different, since it is a power that makes one of your resistances (PD or ED) protected to work vs killing attacks. The power has that requirement.

 

Hardened is an advantage. It modifies an existing power or ability, so it is automatically attached to that power/ability (note that if you buy hardened PD, and buy damage resistance, you have to apply the hardened modifier to the resistance as well). Hardened works by beefing up the resistance to other advantages, which are normally Armor Piercing and Penetrating (Indirect only applies for some defensive powers, so this one may not apply).

 

The way the advantage works is you buy it for a defense (say, resistant PD). It will protect against an Armor Piercing attack. It will also protect against a Penetrating attack. It will not give full protection against an Armor Piercing Penetrating attack (which is pretty powerful) - one level will only protect against whichever one you (a) want at that time, or ( specify when the advantage is applied. It really depends on what rules you want to work with (or if you aren't the DM, then whatever they have set up).

 

If you want it to provide less protection, by stating that one level applies to only one form of advantage (AP, P, I), then you are free to make it that way, but since it is already only a +1/4 modifier, there is no way to get anything for it (less extensive cover means less point cost) since it is at the lowest advantage already.

 

You can buy a defense that is only for a particular attack (like an AP one, if the GM allows), but that's a bit more and I don't want to write it in this post (especially since it may be irrelevant).

 

In most games that I am aware of, Penetrating and AP attacks are not the norm, and Indirect is not used often either. Most defenses are not hardened. Unless you have a lot of those attacks, I'd say limiting it is pretty much useless - but it's still the GM call.

 

Long way to recap: Can, not Have To, but it is still ultimately up to the GM.

[Tonio]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

I just composed a reply, but the @#$#%$ Internet just ate it. I'll try to recompose it (and myself).

 

I'm sorry, but shouldn't you have to decide which one (AP, Penetrating, or Indirect) the level of Hardened protects against when you buy it?

 

It would be like buying 20 pts of Damage Resistance, and waiting to be hit by something, and then saying, 'Oh, my Damage Resistance will apply to my PD this Phase.' I just don't see what the difference is.

 

And the murky waters just got murkier . . .

 

Nope. What you decide is, from one point of view, how you "break ties" if a "tie" occurs.

 

So if you're hit by an attack with only one type of Advantage (of the ones countered by Hardened), then you apply all your levels of Hardened towards it. But if you're hit with an attack with more than one type of Advantage (of the ones countered by Hardened), then you have to choose what each level of Hardened counts against. This is a decision you can make when you buy Hardened, but you apparently don't have to.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

I'm not sure if the people saying "you can choose which attack Advantage Hardened applies to at the time of the attack" intended to imply this or not; but if you haven't made this decision in advance, I believe whatever you do decide should become the rule for that character if he's hit with the same combination of Advantages again. That's the strong implication of a response from Steve Long to a similar rules question I asked him a while back, on this thread:

 

I was looking at the writeup for Doctor Destroyer in CKC, particularly his "Sword of Destroyer," a HKA with Armor Piercing x2 and Penetrating. It struck me that I could use a little help working out how that combination of Advantages would interact against Defenses that are Hardened x2.

 

Would you mind walking me through it? Thanks for you help.

 

Assuming the character hasn't defined in advance how he wants his Hardened to work in this situation, just let him pick whichever two Advantages he wants to negate. Make a note so that the next time someone attacks him with this sort of power, you'll know how to apply the Hardened.

 

I'll post this specific question on the Rules Questions forum, to be sure.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

And Steve confirms: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67618

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

OK.

 

I started a New Character on HD (just so I don't get even more confused).

 

1. I bought her STR to 60 and her CON to 20.
   
2. Which makes her PD=12 and her ED=4.
   
3. I bought (as a Power) her PD to 20.
   
4. I selected the Affects Base Characteristics box.
   
5. I bought the Advantage Hardened.
   
6. I did the same for her ED (No sense in typing all that again).
   
7. I then buy Damage Resistance (Hardened) for all of it.
   

I think that I did something wrong.

 

1 level of Hardened on all of it gives a TOTAL cost of 59 (?!).

2 levels of Hardened on all of it gives a TOTAL cost of 74 (?!).

3 levels of Hardened on all of it gives a TOTAL cost of 89 (?!).

 

Man, I royally screwed something up, didn't I?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

post the hdc file if you don't mind.

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Hope I do this right.

 

[ATTACH]29213[/ATTACH]

 

Let me know if it worked. I'm not very computer-literate.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Attachment worked. Nothing screwed up.

 

Here's the breakdown:

Base PD of 12 - Hardened costs 3 pts

(12PD costs 12 points, 12 * 1.25 = 15 points, minus the base of 12 = 3 Character Points final Cost To You)

Base ED of 4 - Hardened costs 1 pt

(breakdown is similar as above)

 

Purchased PD of +8, Hardened = 10 points, plus the 3 from applying Hardened to the Base PD (as statted above) gives the Power a total cost of 13.

Purchsed ED breaks down the same way.

 

Damage Resistance costs 1 Character Point to make 2 points of Defense Resistant, so to make 40 points of defense (20PD and 20ED) Resistant costs 20 Points, plus Hardened costs 5 points for a total of 25 points (20*1.25).

 

For a total cost of 59 Character Points to have 20 rPD & 20 rED, both Hardened once.

 

That make sense?

[New Hero]

Re: Questions from a New Hero

 

Damn, you're quick!

 

So I didn't screw it up! HUZZAH!