How do I build this power: Always face away from me

[palaskar]

An idea I had for my "protocols" thread:

 

This power makes the target always face away from the user. That is, the target's "front" faces away, while his "back" faces the user. Targets with no obvious front or back are not affected.

 

The only way I thought to build this is thusly:

 

Telekinesis, (only to make the target face away from the user, -2)

 

I'm basing it off the "slippery floor" power (in the old UMA, IIRC.)

 

What do you think?

[Patriot]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

How about mind control with an extremely limited effect?

[palaskar]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Er, no. I just want to make the target face away. Mind control wouldn't work on say, machines, unless I bought the additional class of minds (machine.)

 

It's not a mental power, as I see it; the target is merely forced to turn away. This nullifies most energy projectors and bricks, frex.

 

So, I guess my build is good, then?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Er, no. I just want to make the target face away. Mind control wouldn't work on say, machines, unless I bought the additional class of minds (machine.)

 

It's not a mental power, as I see it; the target is merely forced to turn away. This nullifies most energy projectors and bricks, frex.

 

So, I guess my build is good, then?

 

I'm having difficulty seeing the SFX for this rather bizarre construct. Everyone and everything flips around to face away? Why? Does a car traveling towards you at 200 mph flip around and keep heading towards you, or is its momentum also changed to the other direction? How close do the targets need to be to be effective?

 

Your TK would need an Area of Effect to work on multiple targets. Ensuring it has enough STR to establish and maintain the "turn around" effect on, say, a 90 STR Brick (Grond) and a speeding jet plane will be pretty expensive, but it's one possibility.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

I agree with Hugh, both the SFX and the in-game effects of this Power need to be defined more. If it's a physical turning of an opponent, that could be Telekinesis if the effect has a limited Strength/mass affected, or if not, possibly Teleport UAA with Position Shift (which would need a defined Defense). If it makes the person with the Power impossible to hit, that could be the SFX for Desolidification. If the Power's possessor merely becomes harder to hit, you could used DCV CSL, Change Environment, and/or Missile Deflection. If the target is turned so that he can't see the person with the Power, that could be the SFX of Invisibility, or if he's just harder to perceive (target has to keep craning his neck to see behind him), Change Environment or Images would provide Perception penalties. If the Power's user can treat subsequent attacks to his target as "from behind", you could give him more OCV levels only for that target.

 

There are lots of possibilities, depending on how you want it to work and how you justify it within the game world.

[CTaylor]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Teleport as an attack 1", position shift would force them to continually turn around (and annoy the heck out of them). Images with invisible power effects to make it look like you're always on the opposite side you really are could work too but it would be really messy.

[Vulcan]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

It's not a mental power' date=' as I see it; the target is merely forced to turn away. This nullifies most energy projectors and bricks, frex.[/quote']

 

Right up to the point the EP turns his head and points his hand back over his shoulder.

[casualplayer]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

"They all laughed when I defined my lightning bolts as coming out of my butt. Who's laughing now?"

[palaskar]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

It's basically turning one opponent at range by manipulating the local gravity to float them into facing backward. It doesn't affect moving targets, as I see it. If there's a car moving, it keeps moving, only back first.

 

Does that make more sense?

 

BTW, wouldn't there be a penalty to-hit if the blaster has to look over his shoulder and point?

 

(And yes, the "out of the butt" FSX obviously neutralizes it. )

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

I wouldn't allow such a big Limitation on the TK; at most it'd be -1. Although you've carefully avoiding saying it, IMO what you're trying to do is get behind every opponent to gain a combat advantage for minimal cost. Unless you could come up with a plausible SFX and rationale, I wouldn't allow this.

 

Even if you do this, you're in for a big surprise the first time you run into an opponent with Defense Maneuver III or IV.

[gmurie]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

"They all laughed when I defined my lightning bolts as coming out of my butt. Who's laughing now?"

 

This looks like a job for...

 

THE BROWN TORPEDO!!!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

It's basically turning one opponent at range by manipulating the local gravity to float them into facing backward. It doesn't affect moving targets, as I see it. If there's a car moving, it keeps moving, only back first.

 

Does that make more sense?

 

Not really. Why can it only turn him 180 degrees around - or more to the point, only turn him so he is 180 degrees away from you? Couldn't it logically place him on any angle, lift him up or force him down, but you have chosen to turn him around? That would be Telekinesis, probably Telekinesis that cannot do direct damage.

 

It would require an attack action to grab a target and turn his facing, and you would be subject to the usual STR vs STR requirements to establish and maintain your hold.

 

Another approach, I suppose, would be Flight Usable as an Attack, Position Shift. This would also require an attack roll, as well as a reasonably common defense that immunizes the target. However, while it would change the target's facing, it would not hold him in that facing - he would be able to turn around and face you at his discretion.

 

I suppose you could create a more complex construct with automatically resetting triggers that continually returns the target to facing away from you, for an increased cost.

 

BTW' date=' wouldn't there be a penalty to-hit if the blaster has to look over his shoulder and point?[/quote']

 

Not by the book - as long as he can see his target, and hasn't limited his power to have a restricted arc of fire, he's able to blast in other directions.

[palaskar]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Yeah, you're probably right about about the -1 max on the Limitation -- it is a pretty effective power. I tend to shy away from Flight UAA...there's always the problem that it can move anybody, regardless of weight. It's more reasonable to put a weight limit on Flight UAA. Probably only how much you could lift with the same amount of TK with the same amount of Active Points.

 

Hmm, there's no limitation on attacks? I thought that was why you bought Indirect, Any Origin Point, Always Faces Away...you're probably right, though.

 

Let me explain the power further. It's one of Doc Vision's discs. The disc sticks to the target, and is "smart" (is semi-intellegent) to keep the target facing away from Doc. That is, it's pre-programmed to keep the opponent facing away. It' like the "weapons platform/drone" under Indirect; only instead of firing, it controls the facing of the target.

 

This at least, Charges (32 on the Multipower, not on the slot: +1/4), Continuing (say, 1 minute, +3/4), Range based on STR:: thrown disc(-1/4).

 

Does that help?

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

This looks like a job for...

 

THE BROWN TORPEDO!!!

 

 

I'd rep you, but I'm out. A little help here?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

 

I'd rep you, but I'm out. A little help here?

 

Got him for you.

[casualplayer]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

This power doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for villains like Angle Man and Mirror Master. I haven't ever seen it used outside of one-on-one. One against many causes logic problems since it makes you have to "conquer" a behind-everyone spot rather than just manuevering to the backside.

[palaskar]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Ah, but that's why it's only one of Doc's many discs. Others include AoE Flash (good for MAs), Sonic AoE (against force field users), EMP AoE Penetrating EB (for many gadgeteers [sp?] and power armor types), and "Chi Flypaper" One Hex Entangles (for those with gesture based powers.)

[gmurie]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

It disturbs me that I just got more rep for THE BROWN TORPEDO than I have for any one thing to date.

[casualplayer]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Now you know what kind of audience you're working with, gmurie.

 

Your character's starting to sound kinda meta-gamy, Palaskar. Were I your GM, I would throw NPCs with tricky sfx or Invisible Power Effects at you so you wouldn't know what type of gizmo to use.

[palaskar]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Really? I always thought of him like Hawkeye. An arrow for this, an arrow for that....

 

I mean, it isn't any more radical than Batman's/Professor's X "protocols" IMHO. How do you take down a regenerating Wolverine? Cut his head off and run away with it! IIRC, someone else on these board did the same thing with a gadgeteer.

 

I'm perfectly OK with tricky sfx and Invisible Power fx. I mean, if Doc has a counter for "X" sfx, there's got to be one for his sfx. And, of course, Doc only has 32 discs. Get him in a situation where he can't replace them, and he's less dangerous. (Of course, there are still his martial arts skills...) This is exactly what happened to Hawkeye in the first Secret Wars.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

And' date=' of course, Doc only has 32 discs.[/quote']Methinks thou dost protest too much.

 

"Only" 32 charges when the average Champions combat probably lasts less than 2 Turns. That's so much of a "limitation" that it costs an extra +¼. So he can "only" get behind his target(s) 32 times to halve their DCV. You know, some characters actually work to make a tactical advantage; yours just metagames it. If he'd had just a few charges to make this an occasional surprise maneuver, it'd be cool. But IMO you're just working the system. Pure unadulterated metagaming.

[casualplayer]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Actually I was shooting more for observation than criticism. It makes perfect sense for a gadgeteer with control over his gadgets and forewarning of the types of adversaries that he is going to fight to stock 4 "Poop on non-flying brick" grenades, 6 "Pee from great height on any HTH fighter" grenades, 8 "No flying for you" grenades, 3 "Ruin mentalist's day and concentration" grenades, etc. The effect itself that you are shooting for just seems so broad and encompassing that it would need an Elemental Control to emulate it, and would be a character's entire schtick not just a trick in his bag.

[Zeropoint]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

I can't help looking at this and thinking about what I'd do with my flying brick if this happened to me. My first response would be to do a move-through, flying backward at full speed. After all, this power keeps me facing exactly away from the user, right? So all I have to do is fly straight backward, and I'm guaranteed to connect, right?

 

If that didn't work, I'd pick up a car and try it again.

[gmurie]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

Honestly, I think the best way to simulate what you're talking about is an Entangle with a Linked Telekinesis. That would be the best way of both making sure the opponent is always pointed away, and making sure it's not subject to rules debates like a UAA movement power would be.

 

It could be done by adding the -1 "Set Effect" limitation to the Entangle, and make the Set Effect "Only to keep victim facing in one direction" while the TK would have to be a "only to Keep victim facing away" limited power, which also seems like a good candidate for -1.

 

Wouldn't just slapping a generic TK or Entangle in your character's MPP be more useful and easier?

[GreyGuardian]

Re: How do I build this power: Always face away from me

 

There's something you've missed - attacking from behind really means being surprised by an attack from behind - Steve Long said that somewhere (possibly FAQ or in the answers section on these boards). There is no facing in hero system (technically) aside from velocity (and you only fool with that if it matters).

 

You need to define the effect that you are trying to achieve and then figure out which power to use. The telekinesis is similar to gravity attacks that pull things to the ground. However, if the only effect is forcing the target to face away from you then it won't impair movement, limit actions, restrain focuses, and won't decrease DCV like a TK grab and hold would.

 

If you're trying to achieve a game effect it might be to make it harder for the target to hit you - that would be Combat skill levels with DCV only - requires a combat roll (and a successful hit) for each person affected. If you want to make the target easier to hit then you probably want the effect to include comabt skill levels only to increase OCV and requires a successful combat roll to affect the target. Alternatively you might make it a Suppress Dex while the gadget is stuck to the target with continuing charges or some such. Or a change environment that moves with the target (and decreases OCV, DCV, movement, and dex rolls. - at which point the dex suppress is probably a better bet possibly with a movement suppress as well).

 

Reason from the effect and Good luck!