Superman Begins and Darker Superhero Stories

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: Superman Begins and Darker Superhero Stories

 

What?! Man does my WW group and I need to have a talk

And to think ... I almost drank the kool-aid ...

 

 

He said most players he's KNOWN, not that all WW players believe that.

 

I didn't. But then I stopped playing in about 98.

[Hermit]

Re: Superman Begins and Darker Superhero Stories

 

Grim, yes -- but I wouldn't consider it Iron-age stuff either. Which is something I don't think the average Hollywood type is capable of understanding when it comes to a character like Superman...

 

You can put Supes in a 'dark' story and still have Superman (Darkseid comes to mind, though there are probably others. I wasn't enough of a DC reader to make a comprehensive list of the possible). What you can't do is make Superman dark, and be true to the character. The 'Justice Lords' version of Superman isn't something I want to see as the default presentation, but I've long ago come to the realization that I'm not the target market for Hollywood or the comic industry.

True. Heroes often reflect their environment (Batman and Gotham seem to thrive off each other) but they aren't so entwined that only an anti-hero can triumph in an evil town.

 

In my own games, I definitely tend to the 'dark' but I prefer my heroes be heroes when all is said and done. I may throw out some bad guys capable and willing of doing some truly nasty stuff, I also try to include NPCs from the opposite spectrum as something more than just candles to be snuffed out. 'Realistic' for me means that just as there are some really bad people out there, there are also some really good people too -- and not just the PCs.

 

I recall a certain memorial to a police officer in your setting that proved just that

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Superman Begins and Darker Superhero Stories

 

Our 15-year-old Champions campaign has always been unabashedly 4-color. We roleplay as escapism. The real world is depressing enough; why would anyone want to role-play in a make-believe world that's worse?

 

Lots of reasons.For myself it's a combination of factors. Firstly, in the real world I have to show a lot of restraint. I have to remember that most of the people who piss me off are actually quite decent, and just approach things from a different angle. It's frankly quite stressful reining in the urge to kick someones ass all the time, so when I'm roleplaying, I want targets I can cheerfully use unrestrained lethal force on, such as the bad guys from predators. I also think there's a beter way to deal with someone who just robs banks in a funny costume without hurting anyone than booting him in the head.

Also, there's the contrast issue. When you actually acheive something positive in Hudson, you damn well earned it. Look at the film "It's a wonderful life". In that film, a good man is systematicly driven to the brink of suicide by a combination of fate, a corrupt bussines man and his own tendancy to do the right thing despite the personal cost. And yet, everyone considers it one of THE feel good films of all time, because of the happy ending. The ending only works because of the contrast.

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Superman Begins and Darker Superhero Stories

 

My preferred style for supers games is a combination of DCAU and Astro City. I like heroes who are heroic, who win the day not because they are more poweful than the villains, but because they are in the right. And at the same time, these heroes are also real people with their own flaws, weaknesses, and yes even doubts. But when the time comes to step up, they put those doubts aside and do what needs to be done.

 

That having been said---

 

Depak Chopra (or however he spells it) is an idiot. What people in Hollywood need to realize is that Superman cannot be written the same way as Batman because Superman is not Batman. Superman is the icon. The guy everybody looks up to. Hollywood thinks we don't want to strain our necks. Maybe the reason Superman Returns didn't do better at the box office wasn't because the main character wasn't dark and gritty enough. Maybe it was because too much about him was out of character. Maybe some audience members were turned off by making him an illigitimate father. Maybe we just got tired of seeing him lift things. Maybe he was too doubtful about his place in the world, and his role as humanity's protector from threats we can't handle yet. Superman's greatest power has always been his unfailing sense of right and wrong. In every situation, he always knows what the right thing to do is, and he always does it to the very best of his considerable ability. That assuredness is what has been missing from his character lately. You want to make a better Superman movie? Give him a villain he can actually fight, and a reason to fight that villain. Make him struggle, make him sweat, but never, ever, make him doubt. The audience should be unsure of the outcome, but never the Man of Steel. And, yes, Superman is better than us. He is what we aspire to be. Not just physically, but spiritually. He isn't Hancock. He isn't Batman. He is Superman, and that is all you should need to make great movies.