Cheese factor

[Gnaskar]

The following are some extracts from a friend of mine's suggestion for a Wizard character in a standard super heroic campaign. They're not completely accurate, as he somehow managed to get them all to exactly 60 active points, and have real costs in the 2u-3u range. Am I just being biased from DMing his DnD horrors for the last three years or is this as bad as I think? Oh, and all his defenses are at the campaign max; exotic, resistant and non-res all.

 

(don't try this at home)

 

OCV with magic missile: 10 (12 with haste); SPD; 5 (7 with haste)

Haste: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 4u Real Cost) +2 SPD, 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each (+0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20) plus +2 with HTH/Ranged Combat (he's fuzzy on which), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each (+0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) plus +2 with DCV, 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each (+0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

Magic Missile: Energy Blast 1d6, No Range Modifier (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Indirect ( Any origin, any direction; +3/4), No Normal Defense (360 degree Energy Force Field; +1), Does BODY (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2) (39 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4). Total cost: 3u

 

Targeting Sight: Clairsentience (Sight Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Targeting (40 Active Points); 8 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4). Total cost: 2u (in separate multipower)

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Cheese factor

 

The magic missile is a little rough, but all personal FF are 360 energy - so once some high end agents attack with a 4/4 force field belt, and he can't hit any of them.

 

FF is a pretty common defense in a superhero game.

 

The Haste has one big problem - They are usable by other simulatneos, so they have to touch to start it, but must maintain line of sight, however thing like Levels or ES in power frameworks are in GM's option territory, they are not book legal (if that is something you are concerned with). And he bought it as +2 Speed, that should really be an Aid, which is much more expensive.

[Navar]

Re: Cheese factor

 

Well I am kind of new at this, but for magic missile I get 2u, not 3. Also based on the spirit of the Magic Missile power, I would (as the GM) say that any 360 degree or totally encapsulating defense would block the missiles.

 

Also Haste to me seems like it needs to be built as a Linked power because he is doing several things at once. +2spd, +2 HTH/Ranged, and +2 DCV.

 

Finally Clairsentience has the stop sign, so I would think you would be 100% in your right to disallow it.

 

Edit, actually I agree with Mhoram. Haste should be an Aid power.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Cheese factor

 

Also all of the powers have Gestures and Incantations - Once the brick grabs him (or he gets entangled - agents with net guns are good here) - he can't cast his spells.

[Navar]

Re: Cheese factor

 

When I tried to throw Haste together as an AID power I got this:

Haste: Aid 9d6, Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2), Speed, HTH (or Ranged), & DCV simultaneously (+1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1) (315 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (126 points)

(if you make it Cost Endurance it is (only) 105 points)

 

315 is pretty rough in a multipower. I chose 9d6 to get the 34 character points you would need to add +2 to Speed, +2 to Combat and +2 to DCV.

 

Edit: and if you make the points return at the rate of 5 points every 20 minutes it costs 117 (or 97 if it costs End.)

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Cheese factor

 

Also, the rulebook warns GMs about continuing charges in multipowers. It is easy for a player to activate them at the begining of combat and then switch multipower slots without any ill effects. Besides these clear rulebook transgressions, the GM always has last say on what is allowed in order to preserve game balance and group fun. If this annoys other players too, then no good GM would allow it (if it doesn't, then it is up to personal choice).

[mattingly]

Re: Cheese factor

 

One slightly less cheesy way to handle Haste (instead of increased SPD) is to just grant Rapid Attack to your allies. And, for simplicity's sake, I'd probably handle the levels as just an Aid to DEX, since Haste should (arguably) also improve initiative order.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Cheese factor

 

I'd disallow most of this for an entirely different reason.

when I'm GMing, players arent allowed to touch the Speed Chart.

 

No DEX drains, no Speed Aid, nadda.

 

 

also:

 

I'm glad you caught the "Non-Standard Auto-Fire" cost extra.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Cheese factor

 

Haste:[/b][/i] (Total: 60 Active Cost' date=' 4u Real Cost) +2 SPD, 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each (+0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20) [b']plus[/b] +2 with HTH/Ranged Combat (he's fuzzy on which), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each (+0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) plus +2 with DCV, 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each (+0), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

OK, I can rebuild that Haste as:

 

Aid 3 1/2d6, Aoe Radius (+1), Selective (+1/4), enhances SPD and DEX (+1/2), delayed return (5 per 5 minutes; +1/2) 114 AP, Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), 8 charges (-1/2) 57 RP

 

The AP is quite a bit up, and he needs 2 attack actions to bump up 21 points (7 DEX and 2 SPD). He can get anyone in his 7" radius - way more than 2 people. They get all the benefits of DEX. 8 charges because he needs 2 each time he max'es out.

 

If you allow the "+X", make sure he sees some Dispels. 30 AP is the highest of all those magic powers, so shutting them down seems pretty easy.

 

Magic Missile: Energy Blast 1d6' date=' No Range Modifier (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Indirect ( Any origin, any direction; +3/4), No Normal Defense (360 degree Energy Force Field; +1), Does BODY (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2) (39 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4). Total cost: 3u[/quote']

 

Assuming the target is affected (1 ED Force Field, IPE seems a simple counter), he takes an average of 3.5 STUN and 1 BOD per hit, or 17.5 STUN, 5 BOD if all five hit. Note that his 12 OCV gives him a 12- for all five shots to hit (11 + 12 - 3 = 20, -2 for each shot after the first). Also, AoE Accurate does allow the target to dodge, so that chance of hitting can be worsened significantly.

 

Targeting Sight: Clairsentience (Sight Group)' date=' Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Targeting (40 Active Points); 8 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4). Total cost: 2u (in separate multipower)[/quote']

 

So what will he use this for?

 

You might want to try this Dispel Cheese spell. You can cast it only in the presence of your gaming group, and you cast using Incantations that go something like "Here is a sample proposed build for our game. As a group, we need to either approve or deny this type of build. If it is approved, it is available to PC's and NPC's alike. If it is not, then neither PC's nor NPC's may use it."

 

This could be the inclusion of Continuing charges in a MP, the buyup of SPD and DEX, or what have you. The bottom line is, if a PC can do this, don't whine to me when the villains have a member who can do the same thing.

 

You guys all have +2 SPD and +2 CV's? Well, this villain has a +4 SPD spell - no impact on CV's though, so it's less points than you guys are adding. That does BOD NND - don't complain when I add "does BOD" to most of the villains' NND's, so instead of averaging 21 STUN (6d6 NND) they may average 14 STUN and 4 BOD.

 

Or maybe someone will have a Poison Gas Attack...say [/size] [/b][/i] Energy Blast 2d6, No Range Modifier (+1/2), Area Of Effect Radius (hexes; +1), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), No Normal Defense (need not breathe; +1), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (4 shots; +1 1/2), 8 1 turn continuing charges (-0 - change number to suit) (60 Active Points). Change defense for different characters, of course.

 

This will average 28 STUN, 8 BOD on every character without the defense, provided all four hit the target hex. More power than the wizard - after all, bad guys are often tougher than the heroes.

 

Put a time limit on it because you need to go design the Wizard PC's Hunted - he'll likely also have spells.