Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

[Phoenix]

This is the idea my group came up with for the group's low Def/High DCV speedster on how to deal with Explosions and Area of Effect attacks.

 

Basically a speedster trick: Buying 5 points Combat Skill Levels (ranged) with the advantage of Usable by Others (+1/4), Only applies vs. AoE Attacks on your Hex (-1/2). The special effect is not being in the hex your attacker thinks your in (as the character's normal DCV does not apply).

 

The question is: Does this seem legal? Anything that needs adjusting (the value of the limitation was based on group consensus)? Anything you guys think I’m missing?

[jtelson]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

I've called it Usable as Attack, AoE Hex, Continuous; Only applies vs AoE attacks on your Hex. The Hex is targeted and the effect lasts through the phase.

 

It's expensive but when it comes up strangely worth it. I seem to recall some discussions about this coming up before.

 

You might look at invisibility or desolidification as other powers to simulate this effect.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

I'll second the Desolidification idea.

 

Dive For Cover is also good (and available to anyone if the optional rule is being used).

 

Flying Dodge is even better (a maneuver from a 'speedster martial art' example in The Ultimate Martial Artist). And it only costs 5 points (about the same as an 'ultra' multipower slot for the Desol).

[Phoenix]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

Two problems with Desolidification: First this is an already in-play character so we're working with a budget; second the GM already said NO to that build (Unless the character picks up Affects Solid on every thing else). With the Flying dodge and Dive For Cover both are active actions, we're looking for some thing a little more passive.

 

jtelson; that's a 12 (17 active) point CSL - that not really worth it. I do fail to see why some of the advantages are applied, AoE, Usable as Attack a hex is a single object that's not going to resist (Unless you need to attack a hex in order to move into it).

 

By the looks of things there is no simple solution to what we're trying to do. Bummer

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

re: Dive For Cover and Flying Dodge

 

Yes, they are attack actions but they can be aborted to.

 

One of the often ignored or forgotten advantages of playing a character with a hight SPD score (like most speedsters) is having extra Phases to 'react' defensively. Extra attacks are much more easily represented by other means (Autofire, AOE Selective, Sweep etc..).

 

The only option that hasn't been suggested yet is some sort of 'static' defense like Force Field. I suspect that it will also run counter to your limited points dilemma though.

 

Anyway, here is my version of the Flash if you're looking for any other speedster ideas.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

Here's another way that would definitely require GM approval though (and it sounds like your GM doesn't particularly like speedsters).

 

10 Instinctive Evasion: [Naked Advantage] Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Whenever Targeted By AOE Attack; +1) for up to 20 Active Points Appropriate Movement Ability (20 Active Points); Requires A PER Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/2), Only When In Contact With The Ground (-1/4), Limited Power Only To Dive For Cover (-1/4) 2

[Phoenix]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

Should have mentioned this before the character has a Speed of "5", unlike others speedsters (it's a 100+150 low powered game - blame the GM)

Character details: A naturally winged female with high movement (the speedster factor), she can use her feathers as ranged attacks (similar to Archangel of X-man fame but based on a limited number of charges) or the wing as a hand to hand attack with reach or a a group defense (Forcewall, with Feedback) (Again see Archangel). She's the only character with any form of an established reputation, leadership skills (Analyze, Tactics, Teamwork), and is the team leader, in other words she becomes target #1 WAAY too often. Her DCV is near campaign max., but her DEF is about half of the other team member's average (part of the concept and one of our table rules). Due to being built like a sail, you know having a large surface area, she is vulnerable to Explosion and wind-based attacks (x2 Stun). There are a few other abilities relating to her Olympian ah... employers I guess, but in a fight they rarely come into play, except the bronze breast plate of course.

All I'm trying to work on here is some way to reduce the amount of time the player spends saying "I get to wake up when? OK, who wants pizza?".

Logic being what it is we were figuring “not getting his was better than buying more defenses when hit” (also don't forget the above mentioned table rule: High DCV or High DEF you may not have both)

 

Edit: Just looked at the character, the Vuln. is to Explosions, not all AoE.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

Buying off the vulnerability to AoE seems like the best approach to me. Given a high DCV character's worst enemy is the AoE, this seems like a poorly chosen mechanical disad. Maybe the GM would consent to a rewrite to replace this disad, which I suspect is having more than the anticipated impact in game.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

Buying off the vulnerability to AoE seems like the best approach to me. Given a high DCV character's worst enemy is the AoE' date=' this seems like a poorly chosen mechanical disad. Maybe the GM would consent to a rewrite to replace this disad, which I suspect is having more than the anticipated impact in game.[/quote']

 

Yeah. Maybe you could start by reducing it to some kind of "Takes Double Knockback from Explosions," if buying the whole thing off is going to be too expensive to do right away. A "roll with the punches" type defense.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

In order to make your hex harder to hit with area effect attacks, I would use the following build:

 

Change Environment -X OCV Only affects attacks targeting your hex. (- whatever the GM rules is appropriate) plus other lims to taste like linked to super running or whatever else you use to justify your hex being hard to pin down.

 

As long as you buy the area large enough to affect whoever is trying to hit your hex with an area effect/explosive attack, then the desired result (people missing your hex more often) is achieved.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

In order to make your hex harder to hit with area effect attacks, I would use the following build:

 

Change Environment -X OCV Only affects attacks targeting your hex. (- whatever the GM rules is appropriate) plus other lims to taste like linked to super running or whatever else you use to justify your hex being hard to pin down.

 

As long as you buy the area large enough to affect whoever is trying to hit your hex with an area effect/explosive attack, then the desired result (people missing your hex more often) is achieved.

 

If 18 points seemed too expensive to the OP I don't see this solution being any better.

 

I agree that a Disad buydown might be the best short term solution for now.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

In order to make your hex harder to hit with area effect attacks, I would use the following build:

 

Change Environment -X OCV Only affects attacks targeting your hex. (- whatever the GM rules is appropriate) plus other lims to taste like linked to super running or whatever else you use to justify your hex being hard to pin down.

 

As long as you buy the area large enough to affect whoever is trying to hit your hex with an area effect/explosive attack, then the desired result (people missing your hex more often) is achieved.

 

Interesting idea. And I don't think the CE has to be big enough to encompass the attacker. Consider a CE that creates fog. Does an attacker have to be IN the fog to take the OCV penalty to hit a target who IS within? No. I'd say a radius of 2 hexes that moves with the character would work just fine (though a sane GM might rule you can't miss by more than the radius of the effect due to the penalty).

[Roth]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

The question I would have to ask as a GM is what is the special effect. Most of her powers seem to come from the SFX of being a winged being who is fast. If the GM doesn't like the idea of Desolid only usable as a defence vs AoE when X occurs (Cause your character isn't always desolid) then does he have any ideas?

 

If not then the buy down would be the best idea.

[Phoenix]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

Roth, see post #1

 

Nice Avatar BTW

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Defensive CSL usable by your Hex

 

....

Buying 5 points Combat Skill Levels (ranged) with the advantage of Usable by Others (+1/4), Only applies vs. AoE Attacks on your Hex (-1/2). The special effect is not being in the hex your attacker thinks your in (as the character's normal DCV does not apply).

 

The question is: Does this seem legal? Anything that needs adjusting (the value of the limitation was based on group consensus)? Anything you guys think I’m missing?

 

If the idea behind the use of UBO was to reflect the character carrying someone then at least Usable Simultaneously By One Other (+1/2) would be necessary in case the AOE Advantage was also Selective.

 

I still think the a Triggered Dive For Cover (see post #6) for up to a 5" 'half move' is the better way to simulate this.

 

Another more simple way to reflect this would be to just buy some 2 point Levels With Flight which can be used as a Limited bonus to DCV or Dive For Cover (which is just moving to a hex).

 

from Hero System 5th Edition, Revised ■ Chapter Two page 369

 

Movement Skill Levels

 

If the character has any Skill Levels that apply to a particular type of movement, they have several uses:

 

First, he can use each Level to lower his Turn Mode by 1 (minimum of 0”).

 

Second, each Skill Level provides a +1 to any roll required to land in, or otherwise move to, a particular hex.

 

Third, at the GM’s option, the character can use each Skill Level to increase his acceleration or deceleration with his modes of movement (not with vehicles) by 1” per hex per Skill Level applied.

 

Fourth, at the GM’s option, a character can use Levels with movement to improve his DCV if he Dodges or uses a Combat or Martial Maneuver that provides bonuses to DCV while moving.

 

Skill Levels with one mode of movement cost 2 Character Points per Level. Skill Levels that apply to any of a character’s modes of movement cost 3 Character Points per Level.