Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

So, I've built a character, Svetlana Doom, who is based around being the daughter of Dr. Victor von Doom and seeks to restore the family name.

 

She has two campaign cap VPPs, a super genius one that has OIF, 19- roll and half phase action (also no END); and a mystic arts VPP, Variable limitation (-1 total), 14- roll and 0 phase action to change.

 

So my question is, what are tactics that people have found successful when using multiple VPPs? I was thinking of using mystic arts for defense (because it's easier to shift around small numbers of active points for easier rolls, as you optimize your defenses), and super tech to attack (because of no END and high roll meaning I can change attack powers more easily).

 

Also, This isn't a game set in marvel universe, although it is supposed to be vaguely bronzish, and also I know I'm murdering fluff in the name of fun, and I'm cool with that.

[Kenn]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Well, I've never encountered a two variable power pool character before. Sorry.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

No problem but usually more efficient to just have one big pool. The only real restriction is that you can not use the powers in one pool to add to the powers in the other: if you have one pool set to (for example) density increase, and the other set to growth, you can't add the strength from DI to the strength from the growth.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

No problem but usually more efficient to just have one big pool. The only real restriction is that you can not use the powers in one pool to add to the powers in the other: if you have one pool set to (for example) density increase' date=' and the other set to growth, you can't add the strength from DI to the strength from the growth.[/quote']

 

Do you have a cite on that Sean?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Do you have a cite on that Sean?

 

I surely do: page 310 of 5ER; No Combining Frameworks

 

Although the example I gave is not quoted an even more restrictive one is (which, frankly I'd struggle to make sense of from anything but a game balance PoV) - you can not add strength damage from one framework (say from DI or growth) to HtH Attack or HKA damage in another framework.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Two VPP's is the only way to perform a MPA with two VPP powers by the book. If the character typically has limitations on powers in one or both VPP's, he could have two attacks, one in each, which he combines in combat.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Two VPP's is the only way to perform a MPA with two VPP powers by the book. If the character typically has limitations on powers in one or both VPP's' date=' he could have two attacks, one in each, which he combines in combat.[/quote']

 

S'right, but if you had one big VPP you could muster a far more effective single attack than the MPA. Not any kind of criticism of the idea - it can make good sense to have two seperate VPPs, it's just that it isn't the most effective build for most situations.

 

This does not fall foul of the 'no combining frameworks' rule IMO because it is a MPA and, IIRC, specifically allowed because you are applying the attacks seperately NOT combining them into one, so, for instance, the target gets defences twice.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

While I agree that 1 big VPP of 140 AP would be more effective, 70 is the campaign cap, so consider that I have bought 1 big VPP, twice.

 

Also, since the character is supposed to be both a super mystic and a super genius, i felt like two different pools was an apropreate way to get that feeling across.

 

Thanks for reminding me on the rules for combinding frameworks. I had put "adjust one framework with giant succor" in my bag of tricks, but now i'll take it out. Also I noticed I can't link powers, but I can still MPA them, which should be good enough.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Concept conquers all

 

Terribly sorry to be such a killjoy on the combining VPPs thing. Of course TECNICALLY there is nothing to stop you creating a giant Aid, aiding the VPP you created it with and then switching it to a stonking great EB. Well, there's the GM, I suppose...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

No problem but usually more efficient to just have one big pool. The only real restriction is that you can not use the powers in one pool to add to the powers in the other: if you have one pool set to (for example) density increase' date=' and the other set to [u']growth[/u], you can't add the strength from DI to the strength from the growth.

 

Your general statement is correct but your specific example is not.

 

from 5er page 310 (thanks for the page #):

 

A character may have two Power Frameworks, or two slots in the same Framework, that both add to or affect the same ability bought outside any Power Framework. For example, a character could have a Multipower slot of +10 PD, and a Variable Power Pool slot of +15 PD, that both added to his PD, since his PD is not in any Power Framework and the two powers are not adding to each other.

 

In your Density Increase + Growth example, both powers are increasing a third ability called Strength outside of any framework. This is allowed under the current rules.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Concept conquers all

 

Terribly sorry to be such a killjoy on the combining VPPs thing. Of course TECNICALLY there is nothing to stop you creating a giant Aid, aiding the VPP you created it with and then switching it to a stonking great EB. Well, there's the GM, I suppose...

 

I'd rather have my joy killed before the game, than make it unfun for other players later.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Sure. First off you need to feel out your GM on how restrictive / by the letter they are going to be about combining frameworks. IMO there are a number of illogical / meta-driven restrictions around multiple frameworks that can really interfere with concept and even just common sense. Personally when I GM I am very loose on this area and only enforce an overarching balance per character.

 

 

Once you have a feel for what the GM will allow in the interaction of the two frameworks you'll be better able to make good decisions without bringing the game to a halt.

 

 

 

Secondly, if both pools are the same size I would say that you should use each framework for what makes sense to its SFX. If you have an effect in mind that feels techie use the tech framework; if you have an effect that feels mystical use the mystical framework. There's not a lot of strategic or tactical difference, save that I'm not fond of relying on foci for my defenses or mobility if you know what I mean

[Sean Waters]

Re: Tactics: Fighting with two VPPs

 

Your general statement is correct but your specific example is not.

 

from 5er page 310 (thanks for the page #):

 

 

 

In your Density Increase + Growth example, both powers are increasing a third ability called Strength outside of any framework. This is allowed under the current rules.

 

That's certainly what it says but it doesn;t make any sense: if you have 8 PD to start and two frameworks one set to +10 PD and another set to +15 PD they can be said to be adding to the ability (PD) outside the framework, but they are, by any normal construction of English or Maths adding to each other as well if the PD now totals 8+10+15=33, and it would mean you could get around the 'can't add STR To HA or HKA' restriction by adding it to your normal strength damage THEN adding it onto the HA/HKA. You could get around the restriction on adding EBs from different frameworks by having a 1pip EB OUTSIDE the framework. That's daft.

 

I agree with Killer Shrike that the restrictions don't make a massive amount of sense from any perspective but a game balance one, always a questionable justification IMO, but the intent is clearly to make transparent how powerful an ability a character can muster, and frameworks can hide that.

 

I'd scrap them but then I tend to enforce campaign active point caps, and adding from two frameworks could certainly breach those limits. As always with a decent GM it is not going to be a problem.