DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

[Basil]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

By the time some committee of legislators ask "outsiders" for opinions, the fix is in; the law will be whatever was decided in some back-room "horse trading" or by unelected bureaucrats who really run things.

 

I would refuse to have anything to do with the process; I refuse to help give it any veneer of legitimacy. Further, I refuse to be associated with any law to remove people's right.

 

What right does making you register take away?

 

Red herring.

 

First' date=' the question was what right was taken away by registration,[/quote']

No, that isn't the question. That's the red herring you brought up.

The original poster is talking about an entirely different topic' date='[/quote']

And here you admit it's a red herring.

[Vulcan]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

What right does making you register take away? You have to register all kinds of things now for far less destructive or dangerous things: your marriage' date=' your taxes, your ability to fish or drive. Buy a gun, you have to register. Have a child, you have to register him (social security number) to get the child tax credit. Able to walk through walls? Gotta register.[/quote']

 

I don't have to register just to live. Which is what metahuman/mutant registration laws amount to.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

First, the question was what right was taken away by registration, to which the answer is "none." The original poster is talking about an entirely different topic, which would be absurd and impossible to enforce (let alone pass).

 

Second, while that's discrimination, discrimination is not inherently bad or evil: discrimination is merely choosing between different things based on their characteristics. If you date Mary instead of Jane, you're discriminating between them; in one sense, having discriminating taste was considered a virtue. It is only wrong when you discriminate unjustly and unethically: say, you date Mary because she's blonde and you think any other hair color is inhuman and evil.

 

Third, merely being born with something does not mean that it is wrong to register you for having this ability. We register all children as they're born (ever heard of a birth certificate?) with any abilities whatsoever.

 

The point stands, merely registering unusual, powerful abilities beyond the human norm is not a violation of rights and not an unreasonable thing for a society to do.

 

 

 

First' date=' the question was what right was taken away by registration, to which the answer is "none."[/quote']

 

I think Vulcan hit the nail on the head:

I don't have to register just to live. Which is what metahuman/mutant registration laws amount to.

 

If you disagree with that, here’s some food for thought…

 

 

Summary of Article Two of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty

Along with Race and Birth I would add “Genetics” in a metahuman/mutant world.

 

And Article 12:

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

What if your power is to read incredibly fast or your brain functions like a computer or you’re just really, really strong? Who the frick’s business is that!? It could be argued that dangerous and/or deadly powers should be registered, but that is a slippery slope. What is “dangerous”, or even “deadly” for that matter? What about powers that are “potentially dangerous”? If you honestly think there is nothing wrong with this then you shouldn’t feel bad if we declare all {insert “race” of choice here so I don’t get chewed out} need to be registered, and if they don’t they are breaking the law. Invasion of privacy is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

And Article 29:

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

How does my using a "super power," in and of itself, interfere with the rights and freedom of others or the general welfare? It doesn't. And since it doesn't, then there is no reason for the registration.

 

Second' date=' while that's discrimination, discrimination is not inherently bad or evil: discrimination is merely choosing between different things based on their characteristics. If you date Mary instead of Jane, you're discriminating between them; in one sense, having discriminating taste was considered a virtue. It is only wrong when you discriminate unjustly and unethically: say, you date Mary because she's blonde and you think any other hair color is inhuman and evil. [/quote']

 

“Discrimination” has an extremely negative connotation, particularly when applied to people. I think you know full well what I meant when I mentioned discrimination and an argument of semantics does not help your case. In almost all modern usage (at least in America) of the word discrimination being applied to people, particularly to People Groups, it refers to being discriminated against. You know this. I know this. Anyone who has ever heard the word used in common media in the last 20 years knows this. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter how you try to cloud the issue, and registering people for possessing genetic differences (which is currently one of the most prevelent cause of powers in comics today) is intolerant, bigoted, discriminatory, prejudice, unfair, et cetera, all with a huge “this is using the negative, commonly accepted meaning of all these words” sign attached.

“It is only wrong when you discriminate unjustly and unethically.”

THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

 

Actually the concept is to make failure to register their unusual abilities illegal' date=' not the powers themselves. But in practical terms, use of powers to commit a crime carrying a heavier penalty is probably easier to enforce.[/quote']

 

Um, no. That is not the concept. Read the OP. That’s not what he says. You are attempting to change the premise of the conversation to justify your view.

 

Third' date=' merely being born with something does not mean that it is wrong to register you for having this ability. We register all children as they're born (ever heard of a birth certificate?) with any abilities whatsoever. [/quote']

 

“(ever heard of a birth certificate?)” Wow, sarcasm…

All joking aside though, you make my point for me. We register ALL children. Now some people argue that this, in and of itself, is wrong. (I’m not one of them, but it is an argument out there, and it’s more prevalent than you might think). However, being given a Birth Certificate and Social Security Number, just like everyone else, is not the same as being singled out from 90% of the population and being given a number and put into a database like a criminal, just because your genetic make-up is different.

 

Oh, and as far as “Buy a gun, you have to register.” Not categorically true. I live in Wisconsin. I don’t need a permit to purchase, nor do I have to register rifles, shotguns, or even handguns. A “record of sale” is required, but that almost always gets overlooked when purchasing from an individual instead of a store. So unless you are, for some reason, assuming the gun control laws in the world that this dilemma we are discussing takes place match your desire for stricter gun control laws nation wide, then your point is invalid.

 

Also, you completely ignored most of my points, (maybe you don’t have a solid argument?), including “why do you have to register passive, defensive, or ‘not-dangerous’ powers?” “how do you define powers?” “why should you have to register for being a ‘mutant’ any more than you should have to register for being black, jewish, et cetera?” (Note, points were not worded as such, but I paraphrased rather than quote myself and make this post even longer. “If you are born with (mutant) or accidentally obtain (radiation accident) a “super power” and are forced to register, than you are being forced to be identified and marked for something that is completely outside of your control.” This is wrong. Morally wrong. Ethically wrong. Disturbingly reminiscent of fascists of the past wrong.

[Karmakaze]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

I don't have to register just to live. Which is what metahuman/mutant registration laws amount to.

 

I'm generally on the side that says that mandatory superhuman registration is probably a civil rights violation.

 

As a devil's advocate, though, how about the requirement in the United States that all male citizens of a certain age must register for the draft? Isn't that singling them out for something intrinsic (being male) that they did not choose?

[bubba smith]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

as am i

[CptPatriot]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

I'm generally on the side that says that mandatory superhuman registration is probably a civil rights violation.

 

As a devil's advocate, though, how about the requirement in the United States that all male citizens of a certain age must register for the draft? Isn't that singling them out for something intrinsic (being male) that they did not choose?

 

Probably because when the draft laws were originally established, women were the weaker sex, to be protected.

 

My original point in this post was that if you were put in a position to draft such a law, how would you draft it? Would you put in provisions for only offensive powers? What provisions do you put in?

[Karmakaze]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

Probably because when the draft laws were originally established' date=' women were the weaker sex, to be protected.[/quote']

 

What do you mean 'were'? Female soldiers still aren't officially allowed in combat.

 

My original point in this post was that if you were put in a position to draft such a law' date=' how would you draft it? Would you put in provisions for only offensive powers? What provisions do you put in?[/quote']

 

Well, the original post said "make superpowers illegal", which implies all superpowers. I think I posted before that something like that would be pretty unenforceable. Unless your setting includes some sort of "mutant detector", even registration would be pretty tough.

 

I did some musing on paper about this before Worldbuilding Musings - META government agency, note especially the two FAQ posts: 1, 2. I was going from a public safety perspective rather than a law enforcement perspective.

[Tandem Esk]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

I posted it in both as Dark Champions characters might have a different viewpoint than conventional Champions characters.

 

The URL please? My characters are all super-powered.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

The URL please? My characters are all super-powered.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70755

You could also just look in the Champion thread, it's still on page two at most and has the exact same name. Or use the search thread function.

[Dronf]

Re: DC-What if you had to draft a superpower registration act?

 

You have been called to work with a congressional committee to draft a Federal Law to make using superpowers illegal. How would you set up a law to do this? If you fail to help them, you risk a more extreme version of the law being enacted.

 

Edit: You can make the determination under what circumstances this is so.

 

Point A: How do they want the PC to "work with" them? Most Dark Champ PC's will want to keep their secrets. A response to a list of questions can be done in a way that keeps secrecy. A public hearing can't. A taped "deposition" is one thing, a "grilling" by a lawyer/senator is another. My characters would never risk their SID's.

 

Point B: How are "superpowers" defined? What level of trained ability is "super"? What level of innate ability, of a kind Jane Alleights has a tiny bit of, is "super"? If someone has an ability one person in a thousand has, is that "super"? What if it's one in a million? One in a billion? What if no human does, but it's something some animals have (example: insects can see polarized light)? What about "gadgets"? What about "tech levels"?

 

Point C: If secrecy is protected, and "superhuman" is reasonably defined, in a Dark Champions world where superpowers are common, all my Dark Champs characters would be all for a law making use of "superpowers" illegal. "Sure, lets cut those blasted capes down to size! :eg:"

 

Ya see, I play in Dark Champs campaigns where the "dark" is black as charcoal. Capes don't fit, and that's how I like it. So "crippling" capes (for certain value of "crippling") is what I'd want. A lot. Enough that nothing except losing SID would keep my characters from helping the govt. do it.

 

Or doing it themselves, in a less metaphoric sense.