How to build an unusual attack

[azato]

I am trying to build an attack for a creature that can either shoot one large attack (say 6d6 RKA) or split into separate the attacks among up to six other targets. When split the combined damage classes from each attack cannot exceed the total of the one large attack.

 

If I just need to do a hand wavium, I will but I would rather do it officially.

[jwpacker]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

My first instinct is to suggest a small ultra-slotted multipower.

 

Something like:

 

90 Killer Multipower

9u 6D6 RKA

5u 1D6 RKA, Autofire [6] (+1) PLUS 10 CSLs, only to offset Autofire vs Multiple Target penalties

[braincraft]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Effects don't scale linearly. A 6d6K can put holes in battleship plate and level small houses. A 1d6K won't get through a good kevlar vest and might not bust the lock on a modern door. Don't be so hung up on the numbers; be aware of what they represent.

 

If you want to be able to use the same attack to hit multiple targets, just use the rule that lets you spread RKAs. Done.

[azato]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

The actual numbers I have not settled on. I am working from another game system and things don't quite scale properly.

 

Effects don't scale linearly. A 6d6K can put holes in battleship plate and level small houses. A 1d6K won't get through a good kevlar vest and might not bust the lock on a modern door. Don't be so hung up on the numbers; be aware of what they represent.

 

If you want to be able to use the same attack to hit multiple targets, just use the rule that lets you spread RKAs. Done.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Something like this might work:

 

112 Multipower, 112-point reserve - END=

11u 1) RKA 6d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (112 Active Points) - END=4

6u 2) RKA 1d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), AVLD (+1 1/2), Area Of Effect (96" Any Area; +2), Selective (+1/4) (97 Active Points); Limited Power Maximum of 6 Targets (-1/2) - END=0

10u 3) RKA 1d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), AVLD (+1 1/2), Autofire (10 shots; +1), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (97 Active Points) - END=0

[braincraft]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

The actual numbers I have not settled on. I am working from another game system and things don't quite scale properly.

 

Don't try to convert mechanics; different systems have entirely different goals and often don't intersect meaningfully. Convert behavior in the narrative/setting. What does the power do? Is 6d6K an appropriate amount of damage? Compare to characters in your campaign and the object table; 21 BODY (the average roll on 6d6) vaporizes a normal human, totals an unarmored car, and can wear down a tank. 3 BODY (the average on 1d6) injures a human, scratches a car, and is entirely ignored by a tank.

 

Say you spread your 6d6K RKA across six hexes; that lets you hit six targets if they're close together, but reduces your damage to a mere 4d6K. 14 BODY (the average on 4d6) will kill a human but leave a body, leave a car smashed but not totally wrecked, and bounces off a tank.

 

If you want to target six guys in different directions or far apart from each other, or to be precise about targeting, selective AoE might be a good bet.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

braincraft's approach is very sensible - convert what the power does in the other game, rather than trying to port the mechanics over directly.

 

Hero uses defences that deduct from damage so the sum of several smaller attacks are rarely as effective as larger ones.

 

In addition you need, presumably, to be able to slpit the attack into less than 6 seperate attacks? If you have 2 targets can you 3d6 each?

 

The basic problem here is how do you hit several targets at once, but do more damage if you only target one or two?

 

You hit several targets at once with autofire or AoE attacks (or spreading/sweep maneuver), so start there. Then, perhaps additional damage related to the number of targets.

 

Also 6d6 KA is huge. 21 Body average and a 50% chance of 60+stun. I think you might need to throttle back a little.

 

How about this:

 

Deathswarm 90 Active, 60 Real

Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6, Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4) (90 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1 DC per target over 1; -1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Maximum of 6 targets; -1/4)

 

So, you can hit up to 6 targets within a 4" radius. You roll to hit the right area and each target individually. If you target more than one target each takes reduced damage.

 

1 target: 2 1/2 d6

2 targets: 2d6+1 d6

3 targets: 2d6

4 targets: 1 1/2 d6

5 targets: 1d6+1 d6

6 targets: 1d6

 

Obviously you can up the base damage if that is not enough, and you have the points.

 

How is that?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Nice Sean.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

You mean other than just using the Spreading rules?

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

As long as each attack is over the target's defences, several hits will have more effect than a single one. So consider approaching it from the other end and applying Autofire to a single smaller attack.

[azato]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

The single blast is supposed to take out a gyro-copter in one hit, while individually it does 3x the damage as one shot from a pistol. I think the idea is that it shoots down the gyro and then shoots each person individually. It is a creature that is easy to avoid and it may be that the adventures will never encounter this beastie (and beastie it is).

 

I do appriciate the comments about converting from other games. Some holds true. I am trying my best to do a "direct" conversion and then perhaps go back and make adjustments.

 

I do not like scaling of hero damage for damage and vehicles. It makes no sense for a star ship laser to do little more than a laser rifle.

 

What also will come into play is the defense in this game are rather different than the standard hero way of doing things. Instead of normal armor, instead will be screens that will either absorb 50% of the damage or will absorb all of it until the charges run out. So it may be rather low damage until the blasts suck out every seu out of the battery back and they are left defenseless.

 

Thanks for all the ideas. keep them coming. I will not get a chance to evaluate them fully for a few days.

[jwpacker]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Aha! This is for your Star Frontiers conversion, isn't it?

[azato]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Yes. A giant floating weapons platform. It may be a few days before I post it.

 

 

Aha! This is for your Star Frontiers conversion' date=' isn't it?[/quote']

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

...............

 

I do not like scaling of hero damage for damage and vehicles. It makes no sense for a star ship laser to do little more than a laser rifle.

 

............

 

Damage scaling works OK if you build stuff consistently. The trouble is that everyone has a different idea of how much DEF and BODY something should have and how much damage weapons should do.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

You mean other than just using the Spreading rules?

 

The problem with the spreading rules as written is that all the targets have to be lined up. Well, that is IIRC how the rules on spreading work

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

The problem with the spreading rules as written is that all the targets have to be lined up. Well' date=' that is IIRC how the rules on spreading work [/quote']

 

Sure. I dont have time to grab the rulebook and go thru all the various versions of the Autofire Skills to see which of them provide a relevant model, but a GM could certainly allow a version of the Autofire Skill to allow the Skipover capability for Spreading instead of Autofire, priced at 5 points.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Sure. I dont have time to grab the rulebook and go thru all the various versions of the Autofire Skills to see which of them provide a relevant model' date=' but a GM could certainly allow a version of the Autofire Skill to allow the Skipover capability for Spreading instead of Autofire, priced at 5 points.[/quote']

 

Well using the rules as written, accurate, concentrated skipover sprayfire (15 points) should do it, along with an autofire attack, of course: you just take a -2 OCV on each attack, but you still need to hit up to 6 targets. That means you need to succeed on your attack roll by 12, taking into account the -2 above and the cumulative autofire penalty to hit with every one, which is...difficult.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

Well using the rules as written' date=' accurate, concentrated skipover sprayfire (15 points) should do it, along with an autofire attack, of course: you just take a -2 OCV on each attack, but you still need to hit up to 6 targets. That means you need to succeed on your attack roll by 12, taking into account the -2 above and the cumulative autofire penalty to hit with every one, which is...difficult.[/quote']

 

Erm...I believe you roll individually against individual targets when you attack multiple, don't you? The normal +1 hit per +2 on the hit is for the attack roll against each target. I'm a little rusty on this corner of the rules myself, but that's what I seem to recall.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

You do with sweep, and the like, but with autofire the amount you make a single roll by determines the number of targets hit.

 

Mind you, myhead's spinning, so I could be utterly wrong on this as on so many other things

[braincraft]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

You do with sweep, and the like, but with autofire the amount you make a single roll by determines the number of targets hit.

 

Mind you, myhead's spinning, so I could be utterly wrong on this as on so many other things

 

FRED, p376. Separate attack rolls for each target.

 

For one, your way wouldn't even work, since each target would have an entirely different DCV to work with. Even Sweep/Rapid Fire doesn't work that way.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build an unusual attack

 

FRED, p376. Separate attack rolls for each target.

 

For one, your way wouldn't even work, since each target would have an entirely different DCV to work with. Even Sweep/Rapid Fire doesn't work that way.

 

Doh - I'm thinking of single target autofire. Bah. I'll look it up later and unconfuse myself.