Yet another SPD/phase variation

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by J4y

. Second, that the one segment = one second notion is not especially realistic. I'm sure there are many well-trained combatants who can perform more than 12 actions in 12 seconds. Still, I really don't see what the problem is.

 

I would go in the opposite direction. I think generally people get way too many actions. Thinking that each punch is an action is just too fine grained, an entire set of blows being a more realistic thought of what an attack is. You can't model a fire fight in Hero realistically because of it. A Hero firefight will never last more than 30 seconds, and I can't think of any of our super powered fights that have lasted even a minute despite our team having favouring bricks. A typical movie fight usually lasts several minutes, and real fire fights even longer. but in Hero it's like hitting the fast forward button.

 

Because of the very short fights it has pretty much mandated that the team either a) stick together or buy megascale movement or c) bring a book to sessions because if you're not at a fight you got some time to waste as the next 36 seconds of intense bloodshed could take hours to play out.

 

If you think firefights last a long time you might try want to look at hostage rescues, these are often only seconds long, these also are typical of the situations in most RPGs. I think HERO firefights and RPG firefights in general are so fast is because irl people take cover and blast away at targets they can't see to make them keep their heads down. In RPG's this rarely happens, generally most players focus on shooting their target and rules are created to allow this.

[Doc Democracy]

I've been reading proposals for changing the intiative system in Champions evers since I first joined the mailing list years and years ago. I've never given them much attention as I happen to think that the speed chart is one of the features of Hero.

 

Anyway - it was when I was reading Geoff's post (I think) that I had an idea of my own. He was asking for an ideal system where in a SPD 4 v SPD 3 fight the extra phase of the SPD 4 person was randomised.

 

What about it being allocated instead??

 

My idea is that the main phases of a fight are dictated by the slowest SPD combatant. So in the instance of a SPD 3 versus SPD 4 both combatants would act on phases 4, 8 and 12. The SPD 4 character would however be able to use his extra phase any time after phase 3 (the earliest allowed in SPD 4).

 

That gives the higher speed character the chance to utilise his higher speed profitably and more unpredictably.

 

I would also limit actions to once per segment.

 

That would seem, on limited reflection I grant, a decent way to shake things up without losing the flavour and structure granted by the chart.

[badger3k]

Here's an idea I "borrowed" from one of the games systems I used to play (don't ask which one, there's been too many). Use the SPD stat straight. If the character has a 3.3 speed, multiply by 10. That gets him a 33. Moves/actions go on 10 counts. The 33 score would mean he would move on 33, 23, 13, and 3 (yeah, he'd get one extra action, but there's other ways to do it too). A character with 30 would go on 30, 20, and 10 (add 0 if you want). For ties, highest DEX goes first.

 

Add in some die roll for randomness too, if you want.

 

A slightly harder way is to divide DEX by SPD - an 18 DEX character with 3 SPD would go on the count of 6, 12, and 18. A 20 DEX, 4 SPD character would go on 5, 10, 15, and 20.

 

Each "round/phase/segment/combat turn" would last however long you wanted it to be.

 

I haven't used this system, but I remember similar types of things being done. This way you'd keep DEX and SPD as usable stats (just gets rid of the SPD chart). It's probably not exactly what you're looking for, but I figured I'd shoot it out there.

[Damon_Dusk]

Doc Democracy said:

My idea is that the main phases of a fight are dictated by the slowest SPD combatant. So in the instance of a SPD 3 versus SPD 4 both combatants would act on phases 4, 8 and 12. The SPD 4 character would however be able to use his extra phase any time after phase 3 (the earliest allowed in SPD 4).

 

That gives the higher speed character the chance to utilise his higher speed profitably and more unpredictably.

 

I would also limit actions to once per segment.

 

I guess to me, in effect this isn't much different than the system I proposed, except you're still using the Speed chart. The main change is that instead of giving the faster characters actions at the end of the turn, you're allowing them to use them somewhere between rounds.

 

In some respects that could alleviate the predictability of "back loading" DCV for slower characters or OCV for faster characters. In truth, I like the idea in how it affects my "Round-Based Initiative System", and I think I might incorporate it to allow for more unpredictability and flexibility for faster characters.

 

And it goes a little something like this:

- The base number of rounds in a turn are determined by the slowest SPD of all characters in the combat. Faster characters can insert their extra actions at the end of any round, but only 1 action each (initiative is determined by effective DEX as usual).

[Damon_Dusk]

Hey badger3k, that's the Shadowrun system, which is basically the basis for what I've tried to work up here, albeit a little differently. The 3rd Edition uses the same initiative system that I've put down without that latest modification, in that all characters get 1 action in turns, then faster characters get their actions last. In truth, I've tried to simplify that system and the Hero Speed Chart all at once.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by badger3k

Here's an idea I "borrowed" from one of the games systems I used to play (don't ask which one, there's been too many). Use the SPD stat straight. If the character has a 3.3 speed, multiply by 10. That gets him a 33. Moves/actions go on 10 counts. The 33 score would mean he would move on 33, 23, 13, and 3 (yeah, he'd get one extra action, but there's other ways to do it too). A character with 30 would go on 30, 20, and 10 (add 0 if you want). For ties, highest DEX goes first.

 

Villains & Vigilantes used a system with a d10 (I think) roll plus agility, and count down moving every 15.

[Doc Democracy]

Originally posted by Damon_Dusk

I guess to me, in effect this isn't much different than the system I proposed, except you're still using the Speed chart. The main change is that instead of giving the faster characters actions at the end of the turn, you're allowing them to use them somewhere between rounds.

 

Yeah - pretty much the same but with the underlying structure determined by the chart. Like I said it was reading the thread that triggered the idea - I've never really considered changing it before and I definitely didn't want to do anything that would involve more dice rolling!

 

Originally posted by Damon_Dusk

The base number of rounds in a turn are determined by the slowest SPD of all characters in the combat. Faster characters can insert their extra actions at the end of any round, but only 1 action each (initiative is determined by effective DEX as usual).

 

To make things simple, and coz gamers love 'stuff' to play with, I intend to use this rule and give the players with higher speed combatants tokens (those coloured glass bead maybe) which they can cash in any time they want to make an extra action. Makes the added actions a bit more active.

[Agent X]

To the original suggestion on this thread: Imagine the evil wrought by a character with a multipower that has defensive and offensive capabilities and a high speed who waits everyone else out with "shields up" and then switches over to "massive damage mode." The Speed Chart as it is established does a pretty good job of minimizing this tactic.

[JmOz]

The idea I came up with, that caused this thread, was to use cards ala Savage Worlds/Deadlands. Essentialy each player would be given a number of cards equal to there speed, then the cards would be counted down from ace-king-queen-etc... If you happened to draw two or three of the same card you get two or three actions that turn. If you and someone else draw the same card then you would go in dex order, I need to reread the combat section for the various options and consider how they would effect this system. In general the phase is equal to the card drawned, and a turn is the cycle...

[Doc Democracy]

See, that's another good idea - and it mixes things up a bit.

 

Only problem is that you'd need to get a Marvel or DC set of cards to keep in the spirit of things...

 

[JmOz]

Which right now is not that hard as there are Hulk and Spiderman cards available at Wal-Mart/Target/K-Mart type stores...Normaly in the toys sections

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Doc Democracy

See, that's another good idea - and it mixes things up a bit.

 

Only problem is that you'd need to get a Marvel or DC set of cards to keep in the spirit of things...

 

 

By the way, thank you. I do see one possible problem with balance with it, the system might need to be refined a bit, after play testing...