Sougen Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Given that this will be the 3rd time I have tried to post this I am a little weary about if it will post at all, and if there might end up being triplets of the same post. If so I guess I can delete them later. I hate language creep. Many dictionaries now show “gill-O-teen” as a legitimate pronunciation of “guillotine”. And I actually heard “octopuses” on TV the other day. (Heck' date=' spell check didn’t even catch “octopuses”…)[/quote'] Actually Octopuses is the correct spelling and pronunciation for the plural of Octopus, in English. Whereas Octopi, which is the common American vernacular of the plural, is wrong. Although as per the etymology of octopus, Octopodes is the most correct spelling and pronunciation, but it is rather pedantic and rarely used even among scholarly individuals. So rare is it, that my spell check even classifies it as not being an acceptable English word. Although at the end of the day all three forms are acceptable, and indeed are all recorded in most reputable dictionaries (with the occasional exception of Octopodes). Likewise, the plural of Index is in dispute as well. Index's original plural is as Ghost Angle pointed out, Indices. This term however hasn't stuck with the populace and has become Indexes as well. Depending on the field of work you are in, each one may be more appropriate then the other. With, I think, Mathematicians preferring Indices and Computer science professionals preferring Indexes (along with the average citizen). Wikipedia has an interesting, and useful, entry on the pluralization of words in the English Language. It even covers Index in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Given that this will be the 3rd time I have tried to post this I am a little weary about if it will post at all, and if there might end up being triplets of the same post. If so I guess I can delete them later. Delete away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sougen Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Delete away Done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Given that this will be the 3rd time I have tried to post this I am a little weary about if it will post at all, and if there might end up being triplets of the same post. If so I guess I can delete them later. Actually Octopuses is the correct spelling and pronunciation for the plural of Octopus, in English. Whereas Octopi, which is the common American vernacular of the plural, is wrong. Although as per the etymology of octopus, Octopodes is the most correct spelling and pronunciation, but it is rather pedantic and rarely used even among scholarly individuals. So rare is it, that my spell check even classifies it as not being an acceptable English word. Although at the end of the day all three forms are acceptable, and indeed are all recorded in most reputable dictionaries (with the occasional exception of Octopodes). Likewise, the plural of Index is in dispute as well. Index's original plural is as Ghost Angle pointed out, Indices. This term however hasn't stuck with the populace and has become Indexes as well. Depending on the field of work you are in, each one may be more appropriate then the other. With, I think, Mathematicians preferring Indices and Computer science professionals preferring Indexes (along with the average citizen). Wikipedia has an interesting, and useful, entry on the pluralization of words in the English Language. It even covers Index in it. Languager Creep is an inevitable occurrence and sign that the language is still alive and kicking. I just wish it didn't creep in certain directions. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sougen Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Languager Creep is an inevitable occurrence and sign that the language is still alive and kicking. I just wish it didn't creep in certain directions. . . Oh I completely understand, and this is a belief I have as well. I would much prefer the style of creep you indicated, only to add greater clarity or new world. My comment in the first section was just in regards to human perception as compared to linguistic history. People might consider Octopuses to be language creep and thus deem it bad, whereas in reality their version is the creep. The second section was only meant to add to your point, not contradict, so I apologize if it came off that way. Indeed in the case of the plural of Index, I would much prefer if it would stick with one or the other. Either Indexes because of popularity and ease of use or Indices for historical / linguistic reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexShinjo Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum This is an impressive thread. Starts on Normal Maximum and somehow gets to talking about the dictionary. No ADD in this group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sougen Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum This is an impressive thread. Starts on Normal Maximum and somehow gets to talking about the dictionary. No ADD in this group. Speaking of Dictionaries, does anyone remember the Dick Van Dyke show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Nah, I wasn't thinking you were contradicting me, just clarifying my own stance on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiggins Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Speaking of Dictionaries, does anyone remember the Dick Van Dyke show? You mean the BLEEP Van BLEEP show? BLEEPING FCC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NDPT0Ph5rA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: normal maximum Speaking of Dictionaries, does anyone remember the Dick Van Dyke show? Yep, Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Neuhart too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: normal maximum I'm surprised "octopi" is considered “American” vernacular. Every nature show filmed by British or Australians I’ve ever seen use it also. In fact, Americans are the only ones I’ve ever heard say “octopuses” (then again, how often do you hear the word, really?), and considering our butchering of the English language, I guess I must have assumed incorrectly. My main point, however, stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sougen Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: normal maximum I'm surprised "octopi" is considered “American” vernacular. Every nature show filmed by British or Australians I’ve ever seen use it also. In fact' date=' Americans are the only ones I’ve ever heard say “octopuses” (then again, how often do you hear the word, really?), and considering our butchering of the English language, I guess I must have assumed incorrectly. My main point, however, stands.[/quote'] Actually it is no mistake that it is misspoken more often in academic circles. In that part of society, the need to impress is strong and fumbling upon the wrong words is frowned upon. So all of our general education teaches us that that scientific words that end in 'us' must be Latin and therefore must be pluralized by replacing the ending with the 'pi' sound. The common mistake is to just overlook the Greek origin of this specific word. And it only takes ONE snooty professor then to make this mistake and doom his students to ridicule for speaking in the tongue of the uneducated commoners. Again Octopi is acceptable, but only because of frequency of use, not linguistic delineation. As a piece of advice for all those who think this might be a good thing to trip your professor up on, DON'T. They do not like smart a**es and you will lose points in the class. Take this advice from someone who has made this mistake . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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