A damage shield whose effect is continuous

[Fireg0lem]

I was wondering about this one, and I can't figure out how it should work. Damage Shield requires continuous, and it makes the power affect anyone who touches the character. But what if you want the ability to inflict a continuing effect on anyone who touches the character? For example, a damage shield whose effect is "lights target on fire" and hence they should continue to take damage after no longer touching the character.

 

I can think of a few options, but none that are both legal and generally functional.

 

1. Gradual. Problem - doesn't work for non-attack powers, and also, tends to make powers suck.

 

2. Build the power as an attack in which you hit yourself with a Continuous Sticky Personal Immunity version of the power. PI makes you not take the effect yourself, Sticky makes it "stick" to other people. Problem - huge kludge.

 

3. Apply Continuous twice. Problem - no justification in the rules that you can do this.

 

Is this addressed somewhere I'm missing? I would be inclined to use #3 for this - does this seem reasonable?

[The_Patriot]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I would recommend building a second power that uses Linked or Trigger with Continuous to get the effect you want.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I think that works mechanically, but "Trigger - Someone Hits Me" is specifically called out as a no-no. It is another way to work around this, though.

[The_Patriot]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I think that works mechanically' date=' but "Trigger - Someone Hits Me" is specifically called out as a no-no. It is another way to work around this, though.[/quote']

 

A trigger defined that way is, but if the Trigger is defined as Once Damage Shield No Longer Does Damage Second Attack Kicks In it is a legal build. With Linked the problem is that the effect begins immediately while trigger works after the Damage Shield is used.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

Okay, I see what you're suggesting. I like that better than Kludge 2, but it is still a bit of a kludge. I'll keep that one in mind though, since it is pretty inarguably legal and at least doesn't have bizarre side effects.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

If you make the Shield Uncontrolled, then you can make the Shield Sticky. I think this works under the rules.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

The Advantages Uncontrolled and Sticky are probably what you're looking for.

 

example:

 

75 Come On Let Me Light You On Fire!: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), Sticky ((Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 173; Revised, page 268); +1/2), Uncontrolled ((Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 175; Revised, page 272); +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (75 Active Points) - END=0

[Lord Liaden]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I took this from the FAQ, so it should be considered Steve Long's "official" ruling on this issue:

 

Question: Since a power with Damage Shield must be Constant (either normally, or through the application of the Continuous Advantage), does the power keep affecting the victim after he’s let go of the Shielded character?

 

Answer: No. A Power with Damage Shield, regardless of the fact it’s Constant/Continuous, does not continue affecting the victim after the victim lets go. To make the effect continue after the victim lets go, you would have to create an appropriately-constructed Linked power.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I took this from the FAQ, so it should be considered Steve Long's "official" ruling on this issue:

 

Question: Since a power with Damage Shield must be Constant (either normally, or through the application of the Continuous Advantage), does the power keep affecting the victim after he’s let go of the Shielded character?

 

Answer: No. A Power with Damage Shield, regardless of the fact it’s Constant/Continuous, does not continue affecting the victim after the victim lets go. To make the effect continue after the victim lets go, you would have to create an appropriately-constructed Linked power.

 

Thanks - that matches up with Patriot's suggestion.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I took this from the FAQ, so it should be considered Steve Long's "official" ruling on this issue:

 

Question: Since a power with Damage Shield must be Constant (either normally, or through the application of the Continuous Advantage), does the power keep affecting the victim after he’s let go of the Shielded character?

 

Answer: No. A Power with Damage Shield, regardless of the fact it’s Constant/Continuous, does not continue affecting the victim after the victim lets go. To make the effect continue after the victim lets go, you would have to create an appropriately-constructed Linked power.

 

That seems to be a 5e specific FAQ entry.

 

right above that entry it shows the following as well,

http://www.herogames.com/rulesFAQ.htm?ruleset=Hero+System+Fifth+Edition&section=&keywords=damage+shield&dateString=

 

If a character buys Continuous for a power with No Range, does it continue to affect the target after the character and the target are no longer in contact?

 

No. However, the GM might allow a Continuous No Range power (including a Damage Shield) to keep affecting a target after contact is broken for an additional Advantage (perhaps +1/2).

 

See also under “Powers — General” regarding Constant/Continuous No Range attacks and additional actions.

 

and from 5er page 101,

 

Range

HERO System Powers are defined as having one of four Ranges: Self; No Range; Standard Range (5” x Active Points); and Line Of Sight (LOS).

 

Self Powers only affect the character himself, and/or can only be used on/by him. Examples include most Defense Powers, Movement Powers, and Sensory Powers. Generally speaking, characters cannot make these Powers work at Range, nor can they apply the Area Of Effect Advantage to let others use the Power at the same time they do (that requires the Usable On Others Advantage, unless the GM gives permission otherwise).

 

No Range Powers only work, at best, within the hex the character’s currently occupying, or adjacent hexes — in other words, they can only affect targets within HTH Combat distance (page 383). This may mean the character has to touch the target of the Power to affect him, but not necessarily. Generally speaking, characters can make these Powers work at Range by applying the Ranged (+½) Advantage.

 

If a Power has No Range, the character using it does not have to remain in HTH Combat range with the target to maintain the effect — he only has to be in HTH Combat range to use it. Once the Power takes effect, the character can distance himself from the target (though in the case of Constant Powers, he still has to maintain Line Of Sight to keep the Power functioning).

 

 

Applying the the last bolded area above I adjusted the build as follows.

 

75 Come On Let Me Light You On Fire! v2: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Damage Shield (+1/2), Sticky ((Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 173; Revised, page 268); +1/2), Uncontrolled ((Hero System Fifth Edition Rule Book, page 175; Revised, page 272); +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Ranged (Only to allow Uncontrolled effect to continue after target is no longer in direct contact with character; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (75 Active Points) - END=0

[Lord Liaden]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I hate it when Steve is inconsistent.

 

That said, the phrasing for the "additional Advantage" approach sounds more like a "GM permission" clause rather than the default rule. Personally I like it -- much less clunky than a Linked Power.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

Personally, I would allow Uncontrolled to manage this vs a new generic / custom modifier. But either way, a linked power should not be necessary. Damage Shields are already not point efficient as it is.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I like HyperMan's construct - and agree that DS is already too point inefficient. I would not use 'damage shield' if I did not need to - and I don't!

 

Half Life: 65 active, 43 real

Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense (LS: Radiation, or non-organic structure; +1), Does BODY (+1) (65 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

The sticky (thanks HyperMan) 'passes on' the attack to anyone affected by it - it does not pass on the personal immunity and it's up to you when you define the power if it passes on the AoE (probably safer not to).

 

You are radioactive, and emit alpha radiation which is really short range - only up to a metre or so from you. The reaction is uncontrolled and goes on for a full turn then stops, but the trigger automatically re-starts it unless you suppress the chain reaction (you can ditch the trigger to save points but then you need to 'manually' restart the chain reaction every turn) The 'uncontrolled' lets the reaction continue for a full turn.

 

It affects anyone near you, or anyone who comes near you - you don't actually need contact, but anyone attacking you in HtH, unless they use a long weapon, will have to come inside the magic circle.

 

They become irradiated, their own cells emitting alpha radiation for a full turn after 'infection' thanks to the sticky advantage (and if you pass on the AoE they can further irradiate others).

 

Assuming you have the NND defence you don't really need Personal Immunity. From infection you can expect an average of 2 Body and about 5 stun per phase, or, for a SPD 5 attacker, around 10 Body and 25 stun over the turn - it is pretty nasty stuff, but that is radiation poisoning for you

 

Of course a smart attacker will try to hurt you by throwing your team mates at you (which they could do if it was a damage shield) or attack you with long weapons (which damage shield probably ignores - depends on your GM)

[prestidigitator]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I'm pretty unhappy about the Damange Shield and Constant/Continuous rules in 5E. But in any case is there anything in the rules that says you can't take Continuous twice to affect different aspects of a power's use? There are other precedents for multiple applications of the same modifier (e.g. MegaScale), and I prefer to think of the rules/system as a creative language rather than a fixed set of build options with unvarying interpretations myself. **shrug**

[Sean Waters]

Re: A damage shield whose effect is continuous

 

I'm pretty unhappy about the Damange Shield and Constant/Continuous rules in 5E. But in any case is there anything in the rules that says you can't take Continuous twice to affect different aspects of a power's use? There are other precedents for multiple applications of the same modifier (e.g. MegaScale)' date=' and I prefer to think of the rules/system as a creative language rather than a fixed set of build options with unvarying interpretations myself. **shrug**[/quote']

 

No, I don't think there is. Of course the cost then becomes even more prohibitive and the whole thing pretty pointless unless you take some sort of advantaged stacked power (like the NND Does Body KA I suggested ). I think you get more value from a constant energy field than a Damage Shield though - most of the time.