Reincarnation Meta Concept

[JohnTaber]

Hi Folks: I have an idea for a meta gaming concept that I want to enact for my new FH campaign but I need some help generating ideas. What better place to drum up ideas than this very humble but lovable board. Here is the concept...

 

In the campaign all magic is based around the control of spirits that are inherent in all living things. Think of American Indian and Japanese folklore and you get the idea. Also the campaign will be tougher that ones I have run in the past...characters might die. For these reason I thought it might be run to come up with a meta game mechanic for reincarnation. Here are the goals I want to achieve with these new mechanics:

 

• I want there to be a "golden parachute" of sorts if a PC dies. It could be starting with the EP of the last character or a percentage of the last character as well as the Karma (a luck system) that I have implimented and/or maybe something else.
  
• I want "something" from the dead PC to move to the new PC. I'm not sure what or how to do this. Maybe a character motivation? Maybe a mindset? Maybe a disad? I dunno...but I want to promote the feeling of rebirth as this new PC.
  

I need help with both bullets but my primary hole right now is the second bullet. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

The problem with reincarnation as a gaming concept is that there isnt normally time in a gaming campaign for one PC to die, be reborn somewhere, grow up again, and rejoin the adventure. Unless your PC's are all infants, of course; then the whole growing up again time mill is drastically reduced and it becomes viable.

 

 

On the other hand, if you are running something multi-generational, then the player that wants to play their old PC in their new incarnation just designs a character with the points available that homages their earlier character. PsyLims are an obvious choice to bring forward to form the "personality" core, and any signature abilities the previous incarnations might have had are worthy of consideration. The rest of the character is new. No real mechanics are necessary for this --> the concept of the character is just "The next incarnation of my last dude".

[JohnTaber]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Good point about the age. I was imagining that the "essence" of the dead PC would inhabit another being who is "destined for heroics" (i.e. another PC).

 

Carrying over disads might be fun be fun but I would have to set some point values. Maybe carrying over at least 20 points of disads? I need to decide how much EP to move as well...half? Is that too much?

 

Humm...still noodling...

[Curufea]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

The PCs could be special. What if they aren't mortals at all? What if they are spirits that possess the living?

They could be avatars of Gods, or the world may just have legends of "the n immortal heroes".

Possibly there is a religion or maybe a secret monastery somewhere, whose magic maintains these immortal spirits - this base provides them with the means to move to new bodies when their current one dies.

If you want something more ethical, then perhaps these "Monks of Heroics" also volunteer to be the possessees - or possibly they construct flesh golems or otherwise tabula rasa bodies for the spirits to inhabit?

 

Or - you could make it like Buffy - when a slayer dies, another is chosen. Same skills - different personality. But you would have more than one of them, one for each role in the party - the slayer, the watcher, the witch, the healer, etc...

[JohnTaber]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Hi Curufea: AWESOME! I plan to liberally steal from those concepts.

 

The idea that fits best with my vision for the campaign is that the PC are avatars of very powerful spirits. When the PC dies the avatar ensures that the spirit finds another appropriate host that will act in their behalf. The first session is the powerful spirit calling the avatars together to inform them of their destiny. A turning point in the campaign will be when one of the main 4 avatars dies leaving only 3. Shhh...don't tell my players.

 

My thought is that I will let the PC have the following on the new PC:

 

• Half their EP. They get this from the start but starting PC maximums are in effect.
  
• The other half of their EP are converted to karma points at a 1 to 2 rate. They are ephemeral points that are spent to aid attacks and such...similar to Fudge points. (If anyone wants the rules I am using I can post them. They work neat. )
  
• They must take some fundamental concept from the old PC and use it in the new PC. It can be a mindset, a key disad, a key ability, or similar. I might allow them to do a 180 degree opposite as well but I need to think that through. For example, dead guy give his funds to the poor. New PC is greedy. Either way there is a fundamental link to their desire to control how money is distributed. That is probably not a great example but you get the idea.
  

Any other thoughts from folks?

[Curufea]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

You could have the spirits be damned and they're working off their Karma by doing good deeds. If they earn enough, they go to some sort of afterlife and there is a new recruit.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Um, personally, if a PC dies midgame, I bring the players new PC in with the same midline points as the group. So, given the following:

 

PC 1: 200 points

PC 2: 195 points

PC 3: 193 points

PC 4: 189 points

 

and a PC died, then their replacement would be brought in at or around 190 to 195 points.

 

 

It sucks enough to lose a character; there's no need to punish the player by handicapping the replacement which is what bringing them in at lower points in effect does.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

If they work by possession, there is definitely some dark overtones to that --> they effectively kill or usurp the personalities belonging to the bodies they are possessing. The friends and family members of the possessed probably wouldnt be too happy about it either. I would think long and hard before implementing such a system because it will raise moral / ethical questions and will have an impact on the mood and tone of the setting.

[sinanju]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

If they work by possession' date=' there is definitely some dark overtones to that --> they effectively kill or usurp the personalities belonging to the bodies they are possessing. The friends and family members of the possessed probably wouldnt be too happy about it either. I would think long and hard before implementing such a system because it will raise moral / ethical questions and will have an impact on the mood and tone of the setting.[/quote']

 

This was, however, basically how it worked in the earliest days of Steamteck's long-ago "Traveller" game. Your PC got killed and you created a new one. And that guy would step out his front door, discover a firefight going on, join a side at random--which just happened to be the one the PCs were on--and thereafter travel with them wherever they went. As companions died, their bodies were looted and then rest of the group then moved on without a backward glance or a second thought. So did the new guy...until HE bit the dust.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

This would only be formalizing and making a "metagame" of what was really happening. The PC is "possessed" by a spirit (the player) who uses him as a (disposable) tool for his own unknowable ends--the entertainment and enjoyment of vicarious adventure. The PC would no doubt be horrified if he grasped the essential madness underlying his life and his world.

 

He might even scribble his disjointed ravings in a book of some kind, the better to blast the minds and souls of other PCs and NPCs who would someday read it and grasp the horrific nature of reality....

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Um...

[Curufea]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

If it were a science fiction setting - the PCs would be AIs that inhabited android bodies.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Or something like Richard Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs books.

[Markdoc]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

You can skip the ethical aspects by stipulating that to accept an avatar a host has to be willing/compatible: in other words, an avatar can only graft itself to a compatible personality. In a that case, there'd be little to no appreciable change to personality. It'd just seem that the NPC finally got off his butt and decided to do something that previously he only talked about - or maybe even was starting to tackle, in a more limited way.

 

In this case, it makes sense to carry over psych. lim.s, since they reflect the part of the nature of the host that makes it suitable. An example is Matt Wagner's "Hero series". The main character, who is essentially King Arthur reincarnated, has his own memories, quirks and personality, but he also has the "Arthur" personality. he's brave, loyal, impetuous, stubborn and always has to be in charge. He'll have those quirks, regardless of his reincarnation.

 

One possibility is to allow the PC to choose how much carries over - he gets to keep a percentage of his points (above the starting level) equal to a percentage of the disad.s he transfers - but those points are fixed.

 

In other words, if players are 100 +50 Disads, a PC at 225 points could opt to transfer 100% of his disadvantages, and start a new 100+125 character - but 125 of those points would be fixed. Or he could choose to carry over none of them and start completely new 100+disad.s character.

 

In this case, death would be a minor inconvenience, since the player would always have the option to start a modified version of their current character - essentially they'd be playing avatars, not the physical character

 

cheers, Mark

[Curufea]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

You could also have regeneration - like in Doctor Who.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Um, personally, if a PC dies midgame, I bring the players new PC in with the same midline points as the group. So, given the following:

 

PC 1: 200 points

PC 2: 195 points

PC 3: 193 points

PC 4: 189 points

 

and a PC died, then their replacement would be brought in at or around 190 to 195 points.

 

 

It sucks enough to lose a character; there's no need to punish the player by handicapping the replacement which is what bringing them in at lower points in effect does.

 

This is the metagame reason why I am doing this...my only problem with this method is if PC 1 dies. The guy with the most ep should come back in better shape that PC 4. Not a huge deal but...yes...I agree.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Reincarnation Meta Concept

 

Hi Mark and Others Who Have Replied On This Aspect Of The Topic: GREAT REPLIES GANG!!!

 

You can skip the ethical aspects by stipulating that to accept an avatar a host has to be willing/compatible: in other words, an avatar can only graft itself to a compatible personality. In a that case, there'd be little to no appreciable change to personality. It'd just seem that the NPC finally got off his butt and decided to do something that previously he only talked about - or maybe even was starting to tackle, in a more limited way.

 

In this case, it makes sense to carry over psych. lim.s, since they reflect the part of the nature of the host that makes it suitable. An example is Matt Wagner's "Hero series". The main character, who is essentially King Arthur reincarnated, has his own memories, quirks and personality, but he also has the "Arthur" personality. he's brave, loyal, impetuous, stubborn and always has to be in charge. He'll have those quirks, regardless of his reincarnation.

 

One possibility is to allow the PC to choose how much carries over - he gets to keep a percentage of his points (above the starting level) equal to a percentage of the disad.s he transfers - but those points are fixed.

 

In other words, if players are 100 +50 Disads, a PC at 225 points could opt to transfer 100% of his disadvantages, and start a new 100+125 character - but 125 of those points would be fixed. Or he could choose to carry over none of them and start completely new 100+disad.s character.

 

In this case, death would be a minor inconvenience, since the player would always have the option to start a modified version of their current character - essentially they'd be playing avatars, not the physical character.

 

Hi Mark: Your first paragraph above is nice. I think it is almost right on the money with where I want to go. I think I may make a minor distinction in that the newly selected avatar is not having a spirit grafted or replaced but is simple the next in the line to be choosen (i.e. bring a player up from the minors). The key is that they are compatible with the person who will be their new spirit guide/mentor. I need a name for these godlike beings...spirit guides is just ok. Any ideas?

 

In my campaign doc for the players I tell them that their character will have a "calling" to leave their current life. I used an analogy of the summons that happened in ET. The PC know that they need to go to this place and that there is some greater purpose but they do not know where or what it is...it is during this trip that they meet the other players and their spirit guide (aka the one who has called them as avatars).

 

I think the concepts you have re carrying over disads and such go farther than I want to go. From a metagaming aspect I do not want to tie the hands of the player that much. I want them to be a bit looser with that second PC. My players are really creative so I will hopefully not have to go to that extent (i.e. amount disads kept determines pts on new PC).

 

Nice reply!