Replacements for...

[timfnj]

6e dropped Find weakness and Lack of weakness; so what is a RAW replacement for these powers? (since I do not yet have access to the 6e books/pdfs, a book/page quote is not useful to me, but using said quote in any replies is welcome).

[Vulcan]

Re: Replacements for...

 

Depends on which RAW you want to use. There is nothing stopping you from continuing to use the 5E versions of both if you so desire. (That's what I'm likely to do, if I make the switch to 6E).

 

For a more 6E friendly version, buy the naked advantage Armor Piercing with 'Requires a Skill Roll.' You won't be able to achieve multiple levels of halving, but nothing in 6E will do that so you'll probably have to live with it.

 

For Lack of Weakness, well, Hardend stops AP, whether it's 'Find Weakness' or 'DPU Bullets.' Perhaps Lack of Weakness could be a limited form of hardened, 'Only vs. Find Weakness based AP.'

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Replacements for...

 

There is no 'replacement'.

 

I think that Steve decided that it was too cumbersome for a power that duplicated other existing mechanics (like Armor Piercing, Penetrating, the replacement for NND & AVLD, Hit Locations, etc...)

[pinecone]

Re: Replacements for...

 

If thats the case you might look at a "naked" APx2 (or AP+Pen) RSR, or make it resistable in some way (say an Int roll?) (or both to save more cost) and call it "good"

[nexus]

Re: Replacements for...

 

If thats the case you might look at a "naked" APx2 (or AP+Pen) RSR' date=' or make it resistible in some way (say an Int roll?) (or both to save more cost) and call it "good"[/quote']

 

Some folks were talking about a House rule that made AP cumulative. You could attach a roll to that and sort of simulate Find Weakness.

 

or just reintroduce Find Weakness from 5th.

[timfnj]

Re: Replacements for...

 

This now looks rough for my current build. He's now 20+pts over the 5e version even with the 30pt give back(25fw,5lw)[as I said in the opening post I do not have access to the 6e rules per se but I do have the HD update (yay service contract,)and it has been stated many times that HD is not the rules.].

[ghost-angel]

Re: Replacements for...

 

We had an NPC with Find Weakness in our Star Hero campaign, the following works extremely well with the parameters of the campaign:

 

Naked Advantage x2 Armor Piercing (in the case of the NPC it was built in weapons) plus 8 Penalty Skill Levels vs Hit Locations (again, with its built in weapons).

 

The campaign rarely had Hardened Defenses, and even when they are Hardened it's only once. So a x2 AP Attack always halves it. The PSLs mean a called shot to the Head or Vital Area (your lungs are now an easy target...) is at normal OCV.

[timfnj]

Re: Replacements for...

 

We had an NPC with Find Weakness in our Star Hero campaign, the following works extremely well with the parameters of the campaign:

 

Naked Advantage x2 Armor Piercing (in the case of the NPC it was built in weapons) plus 8 Penalty Skill Levels vs Hit Locations (again, with its built in weapons).

 

The campaign rarely had Hardened Defenses, and even when they are Hardened it's only once. So a x2 AP Attack always halves it. The PSLs mean a called shot to the Head or Vital Area (your lungs are now an easy target...) is at normal OCV.

Thanks for that. (mmwv because our gm does not use hit locations...) How about NAdv linked to int role custom limit once per opponent per day?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Replacements for...

 

If they don't use Called Shots either (which is what the PSLs are actually for, not a Hit Location Roll) I suggest trading that in for Deadly Blow along with the Armor Piercing.

[timfnj]

Re: Replacements for...

 

Deadly Blow will work with the Multipower framework?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Replacements for...

 

It's a Talent, so if the GM permits it in a Framework then yes. If you mean will it apply to Attacks in a Framework? yes.

[timfnj]

Re: Replacements for...

 

Thanks again. I will run this past my gm and see if he will let me use it in our 5e game (or if this convinces him to hybridize 5+6eds).

[megaplayboy]

Re: Replacements for...

 

A few options come to mind:

1) Deadly Blow levels or extra damage with attack, requiring a skill roll (for purposes of all of these , we could specify either a special form of the Analyze skill, or perhaps a special "Detect Weakness" sense, with a PER roll required instead of a skill roll)

2) Naked Armor Piercing or Penetrating advantage, possibly cumulative, requiring a skill roll

3) Attack vs. Alternative Defense, version 1: hardened defense or impenetrable defense

4) Attack vs. Alternative Defense, version 2: NND, Does Body, defense is hardened defense, impenetrable defense, or force field

5) PSLs vs. Hit location, only to bypass armor/resistant defense

6) Indirect advantage on attack, only to bypass "personal" barriers

7) Affects Desolid on attack, only to bypass "Desol as invulnerability"

 

 

Basically, the net effect of "Find Weakness" is to get through more damage than one could put through normally, by bypassing or overwhelming the target's defense at one specific weakpoint. So you want the net effect to duplicate that.

 

You could, of course, put most of the above into a MP or VPP, to simulate someone who can find a variety of ways to bypass someone's defenses.

[tesuji]

Re: Replacements for...

 

If it were me, and assuming the 5e versions of FW and LOW had proven ok in my game and were fun, then i would keep them verbatim as in 5e. There is nothing about 6e which makes it more at risk than 5e regarding these two. So if it works now at those costs it ought to work after 6e.

 

So, given no matterwhat its now a house rule, keep the one you have. why risk "getting it wrong"

 

if it works fine now. If it aint broke, dont break it.

 

that would be my motto, if i had a motto.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Replacements for...

 

I would also consider building it some means of adding damage (maybe Deadly Blow) with the Extra Time variant which makes you take time to set it up, then use it freely thereafter, and RAR.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Replacements for...

 

This changes the mechanics quite a bit (sort of along the lines of how Reflection now works), but what about....

 

 

Lack of Weakness

In most campaigns this Defense Power should be considered "Rare" for purposes of the

Attack Versus Alternate Defense

Advantage.

 

Cost: 1 Character Point for +1 Lack of Weakness defense

 

 

Find Weakness

This Talent allows an attack power of a given number of Active Points (or less) to circumvent a target's normal defenses, provided the attacker succeeds in a Skill Roll. The roll suffers a -1 for every 5 Active Points in the base power. If the roll succeeds, the target's Lack of Weakness defense is applied instead of the normal defense for the attack power. When Find Weakness is applied, the modified attack normally loses the ability to do Body damage, when applicable. If a Find Weakness affected power can still do Body damage, the cost increases.

 

Naked Attack Versus Alternate Defense: versus Lack of Weakness (+3/2); Requires a "Find Weakness" Power Skill Roll (-1/2) [7 Active and 5 Real per 5 Active Points in the base power]

 

or

 

Naked Attack Versus Alternate Defense: versus Lack of Weakness (+3/2)

plus

Does Body (+1); Requires a "Find Weakness" Power Skill Roll (-1/2) [12 Active and 8 Real per 5 Active Points in the base power]

 

Cost: 3 Character Points for a base 11- roll; 2 Character Points per +1 to the roll; 5 Character Points per 5 Active Points in the powers to be affected (or, to allow the attacks to do Body damage, 8 Character Points per 5 Active Points in the power)