Blocking or Deflection

[JmOz]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

That isn't fair to the players' date=' by the rules all the players should have to have is a SFX that could be used to block an attack.[/quote']

 

Actualy by definition if the rule is applied to all players it is perfectly fair. Just not RAW, and maybe (but I don't see a problem with it) balanced

[prestidigitator]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

To clarify, I think allowing characters, by default, to Block ranged attacks in 6e was a terrific decision. If anything was a bad decision in 6e itself, it was leaving the out for the GM to say "Character X cannot block Attack Y".

 

The bad decision I see is GM's deciding they will allow "cannot be blocked as a default", or imposing "can be blocked as a default" on certain attacks, wth no offsetting detriment/benefit and no change in cost for those atacks which are more/less difficult to block than the default.

 

Mmm. I know what you mean, but I don't necessarily agree that it's a problem. This seems like the kind of thing that will very easily differ from game to game and/or genre to genre. I can easily see a GM allowing all characters to Block all attacks in a superheroic Champions game, but not allowing any characters to Block any (ranged, energy, whatever) attacks without aid in a heroic game. There may be some in-between cases, but that's going to depend highly on the GM and the game. And as far as I'm concerned that's not just okay, but a great place to leave things up to the GM. You're free to run your games such that, "all SFX are treated equal." Some GMs may actually not want to do that. For example, in some fantasy or sci-fi games, some SFX may be treated quite differently than others, with other setting considerations and attack/defense frequencies used to help strike a balance.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

Mmm. I know what you mean' date=' but I don't necessarily agree that it's a problem. This seems like the kind of thing that will very easily differ from game to game and/or genre to genre. I can easily see a GM allowing all characters to Block all attacks in a superheroic Champions game, but not allowing any characters to Block any (ranged, energy, whatever) attacks without aid in a heroic game.[/quote']

 

In both of your examples, all characters are treated equally, so I would be fine with either campaign structure. What I would not like to see is "The bow and arrow can be blocked by anyone, but you have to pay points to block bullets and it will be very rare for someone to do so. Now, I expect half the characters to be Cowboys and use guns, and the rest to be Indians and use bows and arrows".

 

A 2d6 RKA that anyone can block is less powerful than a 2d6 RKA that only rare characters can block. They should not carry the same cost. I would be fine with a campaign default that all characters can block ranged attacks, and guns are purchased with a "can't be blocked without some added feature" advantage, or that characters cannot block ranged attacks by default, and bows are purchased with a "can be blocked by anyone" limitation. Mind you, in heroic games where equipment is not purchased in points, this makes no real difference, but I'd expect the characters to gravitate to the weapons that provide more advantages, and not select the weapon that is easier to block. Just like, in real life, inferior weapons got discarded as superior weapons got developed.

[torchwolf]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

Mmm. I know what you mean' date=' but I don't necessarily agree that it's a problem. This seems like the kind of thing that will very easily differ from game to game and/or genre to genre. I can easily see a GM allowing all characters to Block all attacks in a superheroic Champions game, but not allowing any characters to Block any (ranged, energy, whatever) attacks without aid in a heroic game. There may be some in-between cases, but that's going to depend highly on the GM and the game. And as far as I'm concerned that's not just okay, but a great place to leave things up to the GM. You're free to run your games such that, "all SFX are treated equal." Some GMs may actually [i']not[/i] want to do that. For example, in some fantasy or sci-fi games, some SFX may be treated quite differently than others, with other setting considerations and attack/defense frequencies used to help strike a balance.

 

Allowing Block vs ranged attacks also helps by somewhat sidestepping the "Block as SFX" argument - apparently GMs disagree if a Block is a literal blocking attempt or just a game mechanics element - leaving the aspects more consistently up to the GM.

 

Block vs Deflection: it is probably advantageous to use Deflection against, say, an explosive arrow, but that would now also be up to the GM, if the Block is _described_ as deflecting that arrow rather than just stopping it short somehow (using a shield to stop it dead-on). Generally, there are bound to occur several such situations where Deflection provides better options.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

I like that more of the system is being left to SFX Interaction and not dumped solely on the Mechanics/Numbers level of it.

 

But, I also agree with Hugh - if any given SFX is going to be a liability often enough it deserves a price break.

 

Most of the time, I think, it will be the general win some/lose some that come with all SFX - but that does have to be enforced in play. If the downsides are going to significantly outweigh the upsides it needs a Limitation.

 

Whether this is a Limitation on some powers, or an Advantage on others, will vary from game to game.

[RPMiller]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

I agree. Players and GMs alike tend to get far too wrapped up in the minutia of the rules and the mechanics. I've played several extremely rules light game systems recently and have to say that they were a lot of fun, which in my opinion is what role playing should always be about.

 

I think 6th was a move in that direction to let the GM and players really have more of a say about their style of play.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

I need a smilie where someone puts a gun to their own head: I get, I do, that sfx can cause a power to have minor differences from the same power with different sfx.

 

I think whether you can block a particular attack is a matter that should be made clear: by default (say) NO attack can be blocked, and blockable attacks are built with a -1/4 limtiation.

 

Fair, doesn't limit creativity, works the same for everyone'

[prestidigitator]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

Maybe guns should qualify for a new Advantage (at least in realistic campaigns) that is a low-level combination of Invisible Power Effects and Indirect (probably a combined +1/4). The IPE aspect is that it can be difficult (but isn't necessarily impossible) to perceive when and where the attack is coming or came from unless you see the attacker, and the Indirect aspect represents the fact that the actual projectile is so small and travelling so quickly that it is very difficult to Block (without at least a decent Focus ready or the like). Exact penalties and countermeasures can still be left up to the GM, but a default for realistic, heroic campaigns where this is most likely to be used could be suggested.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Blocking or Deflection

 

Maybe guns should qualify for a new Advantage (at least in realistic campaigns) that is a low-level combination of Invisible Power Effects and Indirect (probably a combined +1/4). The IPE aspect is that it can be difficult (but isn't necessarily impossible) to perceive when and where the attack is coming or came from unless you see the attacker' date=' and the Indirect aspect represents the fact that the actual projectile is so small and travelling so quickly that it is very difficult to Block (without at least a decent Focus ready or the like). Exact penalties and countermeasures can still be left up to the GM, but a default for realistic, heroic campaigns where is is most likely to be used could be suggested.[/quote']

 

 

That sounds like a good idea: perhaps call it 'Fast Attack' or something a little more generic than 'guns', but definitely worth considering.