OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

[Alverant]

I don't have the 6th ed books yet and I'm not familiar with all the rules, but my Pulp GM converted our characters to 6th ed and I noticed something strange. My character had the "Tommy Gunner from Hell" skill bought as "+4 with Ranged Combat (32 Active Points); Autofire vs Single Target, Must use Max Number of Shots, Not While Targeting (-1)". So +1 with Ranged Combat costs 8 points, but +1 to the OCV stat is 5 points. Buying it as a stat would also include an additional limitation of only applying to ranged combat which is at least another -1 making the skill cost 7 points not 16. So why would anyone buy combat skill levels when improving your OCV stat is better and cheaper? Am I missing something?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

A Combat Skill Level can be used as OCV, DCV, or you can use two to add a Damage Class to the attack. In other words, versatility.

EDIT: Also, if the GM doesn’t like the idea of Ranged CSL adding to DCV, then that may be worth a limitation. Also, if it’s only for use with the Tommy Gun, than perhaps you shouldn’t be using a full 8-point CSL.

[Matt Holck]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

don't know what not while targeting means?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

I think that refers to making called shots using the Hit Location Chart, but I could be wrong.

[Alverant]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

A Combat Skill Level can be used as OCV, DCV, or you can use two to add a Damage Class to the attack. In other words, versatility.

EDIT: Also, if the GM doesn’t like the idea of Ranged CSL adding to DCV, then that may be worth a limitation. Also, if it’s only for use with the Tommy Gun, than perhaps you shouldn’t be using a full 8-point CSL.

 

I'm inclined to agree. The -1 modifier for automatic weapon, must use max autofire, and not while targetting, doesn't seem to be sufficient now if it only applies to OCV. It was OK in 5th edition when the CSL cost 5 points, but when it's 8 (and in light of a 5 point OCV value) a -1 feels to small.

[Alverant]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

don't know what not while targeting means?

 

I think bigbywolfe is right, the way we play it in the game is that I can't target specific locations, nor can I use autofire skills like Precise Sprayfire.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

I'm inclined to agree. The -1 modifier for automatic weapon' date=' must use max autofire, and not while targetting, doesn't seem to be sufficient now if it only applies to OCV. It was OK in 5th edition when the CSL cost 5 points, but when it's 8 (and in light of a 5 point OCV value) a -1 feels to small.[/quote']

You might not need a bigger point value on the limitation, you might need to start with a smaller CSL. I don't have 6E yet, but I'm pretty sure there is a CSL for less than 8 points that would work if this is only usable with an automatic weapon.

[torchwolf]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

You might not need a bigger point value on the limitation' date=' you might need to start with a smaller CSL. I don't have 6E yet, but I'm pretty sure there is a CSL for less than 8 points that would work if this is only usable with an automatic weapon.[/quote']

Just looked this up - it is now [6E1 p69-71]:

2 pts for single attack (the particular model of machine gun on a certain plane model)

3 pts for small group (plane-mounted machine guns)

5 pts for large group (plane-mounted weaponry)

8 pts with ranged combat

10 pts all combat

 

6E1 p71 also notes on limitations that there is no longer a minimum level for applying limitations, unless the GM rules on a minimum (example is for instance 3 pt-levels).

Also noted is that limited CSLs only apply to OCV; otherwise, buy up the OCV or DCV Characteristic instead.

 

Moquif, possibly your GM has ruled on a minimum of 8-pt CSLs allowed to take Limitations, and that might be the reason why it's built that way. You'll have to ask the GM about that.

 

[Note: the 5-pt CSL is now also used for MA with more than 3 Maneuvers, the 3-pt CSL only applying to MA with 3 or less Maneuvers. I hadn't noticed this until now.]

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

Thanks for the details torchwolf. That's exactly what I was thinking of.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

You can used your Ranged CSLs to add Damage Classes. You cannot do that with OCV Characteristic.

 

The GM should have dropped a Limitation and just bought 5 Point CSLs "Autofire Weapons" to begin with.

[The Main Man]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

Other things to consider:

 

- OCV (and all CV's actually) can be affected by Adjustment Powers

 

- CSL's must be assigned; a low base DCV with a lot of CSL's is easier to surprise hit than a high base DCV.

 

- As addressed before, CSL's are versatile and can be more precise than base CV's.

 

 

I cannot think of any more differences at the moment though.

[Panpiper]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

My character had the "Tommy Gunner from Hell" skill bought as "+4 with Ranged Combat (32 Active Points)

I fear that bought this way, your 'Tommy Gunner from Hell' is also a 'Bazooka Wielder from Hell' and a 'Howitzer Firer from Hell', and an 'Absolutely Any Ranged Weapon on Earth from Hell' character. If you wanted to be a "Tommy Gunner from Hell" I would suggest buying a couple of 2pt OCV levels with Tommyguns and a couple more 3pt levels with Small Arms Machine Guns. And with the extra 22 points, you could buy all sorts of knowledges and skills appropriate for a 'Tommy Gunner from Hell'.

[Farkling]

Re: OCV stat vs Combat Skill Levels

 

And in addition...

One would prefer CSL's over raw stats if playing in a game with enforced characteristic maxima, if normal humans cannot buy more than X OCV in their raw stats, then you need CSL's to be a better shot...

 

Paraphrasing from 5E and NCM limitations... haven't picked up the 6E books yet, maybe Santa will get them. ;-)